[Deliverator]

Personally, as a business man, I wouldn't expect anyone to take a job with no questions asked. There are always questions. What is the end intent? Do you want the facility shut down? Do you want just the equipment shut down? Do you want it to screw up a line of their products? There are many many possibilities, and its not the Mr. Johnson's job to think all this out, its the runner's job. That is why they are hired because they are EXPERTS at what they do, not because they do what they are told. If you wanted someone to do what they are told they would just hire a janitor and be done with it.

[The Cat]

Personally, as a business man, I wouldn't expect anyone to take a job with no questions asked. There are always questions. What is the end intent? Do you want the facility shut down? Do you want just the equipment shut down? Do you want it to screw up a line of their products? There are many many possibilities, and its not the Mr. Johnson's job to think all this out, its the runner's job. That is why they are hired because they are EXPERTS at what they do, not because they do what they are told. If you wanted someone to do what they are told they would just hire a janitor and be done with it.

Then you missed the important part of being "Deniable Assets."  As a deniable asset you know nothing you don't need to know, otherwise you're a danger to your employer and if caught could stat hemoraging information you never should have had in the first place.  As a deniable asset you do exactly what is instructed when exact instructions are included and don't ask why because "why" is none of your business as a deniable asset.  You aren't told the plan, because you're a deniable asset.  You don't ask about the plan, because you're a deniable asset; knowing the plan can get you killed.  You exist for one purpose, to do things Mr Johnson doesn't want to dirty his hands or the hands of his employer with.  You are not a businessman, you are a deniable asset who has to act like a businessman.  You're not Mr. J's partner or his equal or his buddy, you're a tool he can use then toss out with no traces leading back to himself.

As a businessman, you don't tell every customer the inner workings of your company.  You don't inform the electrician your 10 point plan for global domination of your field.  You tell him to fix the lights and sometimes you tell him where to aim that chic trac-lighting for best effect in the boardroom with a very exacting lighting plot that was months in the works by other specialists.

As a Runner your work is secret and compartmentalized with "need to know" being the word of the day every day.  That Ares Johnson isn't going to tell you that your run is to make the competition's latest widget carry a secret info sniffer so they can mine tons of data from CATCo's customers and then some whistleblower "finds" the software, creating a PR nightmare which will be constantly harped on by Ares shell media companies so it knocks CATCo's stock for a loop forcing them to sell off the company that produced the item in the first place as a show of contrition which Ares wants to swoop in and pick up so they can convert it into the Seattle wing of their new BFG9100 production line on the cheap.  He may not even say he's from Ares but claim to be an Azzie.  What he does say is "take this, put it in their computers at Location X under these file designations and get out quietly."  He's not going to tell you "the plan" over beers and football because you don't need to know it.  You just need to know, "take this, put it in their computers at Location X under these file designations and get out quietly" and nothing else.  If it has nothing to do with that very narrow job, including any question starting with "why" or dealing with "the plan" or the "intent," then it's none of your business.  You don't even need to know specifically what you're putting into their system, just that he wants it in there.  A hammer doesn't ask why it has to drive a specific nail, or the intention of the carpenter, it just hits the nail as long as it's being swung at a nail even if it's a top-quality hammer.

As for Johnson's "job," Johnson's job is whatever he designates it to be for as long as he designates it to be that.  If he hands you exact plans on what to do, you either do it or walk off.  If he gives you a sketchy outline with "just do whatever you think is appropriate" then you walk or take the job.  If he tells you to contact him every day at noon with an update, you do that.  If he tells you to call him the moment the run starts and stay on the line the whole time, then you do that.  Why?  Because you have no idea what the real plan is and don't need to know to do your bit.

That's one reason why the Johnson Backstab is "popular" with some GMs.  The GM takes the "you are a tool to be used and discarded" to mean "you are a tool to be used once and then thrown completely away with lots of bullets."

[CanRay]

And, of course, the always popular, "You have failed me for the last time..."

[Angelone]

Then again there is too little information. When you give the runners a package to place at a certain location and you fail to mention it's fragile or will explode if bounced around and it ends up breaking that's your  fault.

I don't see a legitimate J putting any stipulations on a team, they will hire a team with an MO that suits how they want the job done.

[Mystic]

Send in the drones first if they see any hrts, bug out. Just because you have a no kill stipulation doesn't mean you can't bring the big guns in case something goes wrong. I'd rather blow a run than end up blown away.

Bingo, I would also add, or "in the jail of a corrup corporation/government" Survival trumps everyting else. And part of survival is asking questons and or legwork. I don't care if the Johnson is Damian Knight, Richard Villers, or Lowfyr himself.

Johnson can tell the runners what he wants, but when he starts asking too much, the runners better be smart enough to walk away or take precautions. Deniable asset dosen't (necessaraly) mean stupid. And doing what one needs to survive a run is not being impudent, its smart. If the run is legit, what Johnson dosen't know won't hurt me. If its a hose-job, Im gonna be glad I packed the SMG with APDS ammo when they try to "arrest" me.

And if the Johnson is a pro, he will expect the runners to ask questions. Only rookies and wannabes take everything Johnson says as chiptruth because runners KNOW the nature of being "deniable assets". And besides, the Johnson will want as much plausable deniabliity as they can get. Knowing too much about an upcoming run kind of ruins that.

The problem with any type of sting operation is that the targets are expected to act exactly in a specific way. And sometimes it just dosen't happen. I've worked plainclothes before, looking for underage drinkers, drug users, etc and like I said I only catch the stupid ones or the ones who make mistakes. One thing we cops don't like to admit, sometimes: the badguys do get away. Sux, but its a fact.

Look, my origional point was not to debate the merits and flaws of modern poilce undercover and or sting tactics, but to point out that :1) don't always count on the runners to do what you want or be stupid for your benefit, 2) by the current legal definition undercover Johnsons are engaging in entrapment, and 3) that if you want to use the sting operation, its not a bad idea, but one that can easity be viewed as abuse on part of the GM, if you take the "its a corrupt system, you are absoluitly screwed" angle too far because it's railroading your players. I've seen too many power-hungry GMs In several games, not just SR, do this with glee and it cost them their groups.

[FastJack]

The way I like to play it is to have the Johnson (try to) screw them over on there first mission. That leads to a healthy paranoia for the rest of the campaign, even when the Johnson's on the up-and-up.

[Deliverator]

Send in the drones first if they see any hrts, bug out. Just because you have a no kill stipulation doesn't mean you can't bring the big guns in case something goes wrong. I'd rather blow a run than end up blown away.

Bingo, I would also add, or "in the jail of a corrup corporation/government" Survival trumps everyting else. And part of survival is asking questons and or legwork. I don't care if the Johnson is Damian Knight, Richard Villers, or Lowfyr himself.

Johnson can tell the runners what he wants, but when he starts asking too much, the runners better be smart enough to walk away or take precautions. Deniable asset dosen't (necessaraly) mean stupid. And doing what one needs to survive a run is not being impudent, its smart. If the run is legit, what Johnson dosen't know won't hurt me. If its a hose-job, Im gonna be glad I packed the SMG with APDS ammo when they try to "arrest" me.

And if the Johnson is a pro, he will expect the runners to ask questions. Only rookies and wannabes take everything Johnson says as chiptruth because runners KNOW the nature of being "deniable assets". And besides, the Johnson will want as much plausable deniabliity as they can get. Knowing too much about an upcoming run kind of ruins that.

The problem with any type of sting operation is that the targets are expected to act exactly in a specific way. And sometimes it just dosen't happen. I've worked plainclothes before, looking for underage drinkers, drug users, etc and like I said I only catch the stupid ones or the ones who make mistakes. One thing we cops don't like to admit, sometimes: the badguys do get away. Sux, but its a fact.

Look, my origional point was not to debate the merits and flaws of modern poilce undercover and or sting tactics, but to point out that :1) don't always count on the runners to do what you want or be stupid for your benefit, 2) by the current legal definition undercover Johnsons are engaging in entrapment, and 3) that if you want to use the sting operation, its not a bad idea, but one that can easity be viewed as abuse on part of the GM, if you take the "its a corrupt system, you are absoluitly screwed" angle too far because it's railroading your players. I've seen too many power-hungry GMs In several games, not just SR, do this with glee and it cost them their groups.

Exactly, runners are professionals. They have a job to do, if you ask them to do something that doesn't make sense to them, they will want to know what the intent is. They don't care about the "why" most of the time. They just want to know how far off things can be and still be considered successful. Because jobs NEVER go the way they are planned, ever... So when someone asks "So you want the facility out of commission? Or do you want to mess up the line so the product is no longer viable?" That is an important question, because you might be able to do that in a different way than they proposed. Again, it is NOT the Johnson's job to PLAN the mission, it is their job to give you an objective and give up as much information as they can afford to. If a Johnson came to me with a pre-planned mission I'd walk away, because they evidently don't need me, or they want to fuck me, and I'm not into dudes.

[baronspam]

If the Johnson is a professional, i.e. a corporate fixer of some sort, he has a reputation to watch out for as well.  If he burns teams for no reason unless he tries (and manages) to kill their fixer as well word will get out about him and he will soon not be able to do his job.  Betrayals should happen only for a very good reason.  They should happen just often enough for the possibility to keep the players on their toes, but not something that happens often.

Also keep in mind, some Johnson's are not professionals.  They may be a corp middle manager who has gone off the reservation and is trying to pull off a personal deal, an internal coup, or just make his bottom line look better.  He may not have the permission or the funds to hire runners, and scrapes up the "down" money and never plans to pay them the balance.  In a similar vein, a mob soldier might be over his head on something and "hire out" to get out of a jam, but either he doesn't want it known he needed the help, doesn't have the money to pay, etc.

There is also the option that the Johnson was "authorized" and has the money, but chooses to spend half of the money on a hit squad and keep the other half of the fee as a bonus.  The shadows are full of greedy, stupid people who don't live long.

[The Cat]

For another take on Johnson Backstabs, you could definately do worse than reading up on the "Toy Wars" of the 80s and 90s especially the "hot cold war" going between Hasbro, Mattel and Kenner at the time (and to a lesser degree still going today).  They were using deniable assets against one another consistently for almost two decades, mostly "sneak and peeks" at new toy lines and "sneak and grabs" of prototypes and design specs.  The industrial espionage wasn't just limited to information brokering either.  To get a jump on one another, they would sabotage assembly lines, cut of supply lines (usually by paying off the local syndicates to hijack trucks), cut power lines and phone lines and "turn" employees to act as their eyes and ears inside or even slow assembly lines.  They bugged one another's facilities and homes.  By the mid and late 80s, the toy business was considered one of the most dangerous jobs in the world.

All the while, "deniable assets," spys, negotiators, "heavies" and the like were vanishing regularly on and after jobs, many of them turning up dead in China, Hong Kong and Tiawan and some never turning up at all.  A lot of toy companies were aquired by other companies due to being weakened by industrial espionage.  When Star Wars fueled powerhouse Kenner began its slide into the hereafter, things got worse.  Every toy company worth mentioning wanted a piece of Kenner because of its status and still existing licenses and the fact Kenner included Parker Brothers and was owned by Tonka.  When Hasbro finally won that fight in the early 90s, things calmed considerably, but stayed a hot area for industrial spying.

Throughout the period and well into the 90s, there was a stream of articles and book on the subject, some written by the spys themselves detailing just how crazy things got, including a shockingly large number of "Johnson Backstabs" intended to remove spys.

[Critias]

I think the most important thing about Johnson betrayals is this -- is it fun?

If your players are digging on a game where they've got to stay on their toes, watch their backs, and always be ready for their employer to turn on them (leaving them hunted by the corporation they'd pulled a job against and their sponsor corporation), if they dig having to hole up somewhere in the Barrens or leave town to lay low for a while, if they like worrying about that sort of thing, enjoy failsafes and hidey-holes and bug-out bags and stuff, if they dig desperate firefights against ambushing corporate enemies with big budgets and big guns...and then like the occasional revenge plot?  Then have it happen plenty.  There are enough ways and reasons to justify it, plenty of ways to make it work in-universe, and plenty of Johnsons and companies who'd betray folks for plenty of good reasons.

If not?  Then don't.  If they have more fun problem-solving their way into a secure facility based upon solid, reliable, information granted to them by a temporary employer, if they prefer worrying about the job and not the lifestyle, then don't do it so much.  There are enough ways and reasons to justify Johnsons playing it straight, and enough corporations and job types out there where it's in the Johnson's best interest to worry about his rep, too, and to genuinely try to help 'runners get their shit done (so that he can get his shit done).  Let 'em hit it off with a semi-regular employer early on in a campaign, let them get a good working relationship going, and maybe even dangle in front of them the carrot of retainer-type long term employment or something.

Or, of course, find somewhere in between for your campaign to fall, like most of 'em invariably do.  But whatever you do, remember it's a game, and is supposed to be fun above all else.  So figure out what "feel" you and your buddies like, sling some dice, and go to town.  Everything else is just details. 

[Red Canti]

Nobody told him what happened to the last one that did.

[Weldûn]

I think the most important thing about Johnson betrayals is this -- is it fun? Etc...

This... this right here.

[JoeNapalm]

The way I like to play it is to have the Johnson (try to) screw them over on there first mission. That leads to a healthy paranoia for the rest of the campaign, even when the Johnson's on the up-and-up.

Like...his name really IS Johnson?! 

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[Blond Goth Girl]

The key word is "predictably"  which is part of a plot that I hate in gaming, movies, books etc.  To go opposite, I created a Johnson who is a lot more than meets the eye and is very honest and loyal.  As a result, the team is loyal to them and between and during missions are trying figure out if and who is trying to kill him via strange accidents.

[Deliverator]

There is constantly corporate spying going on even now in this day and age. When people get killed its usually because A: they went above and beyond to find more information than they were supposed to, B: They tried to sell it to someone else and got caught or C: They got caught spying. They disappear because its never a good idea to keep the same identity and job that you had while stealing information from company A to sell to company B.