[Ranger]

I have been playing Shadowrun since it first came out way back in the day, and played it pretty much constantly since.  Obviously things have changed a lot since then.  My wife has finally shown enough interest in playing it.  Having her and a couple more players that have never played it before I thought it would be pretty cool to go way back to 2050 and start there allowing them to experience everything from the UB and Harlequin to the election of 57 and all of that.  I do realize it will take quite some time to catch up to the current timeline - which is fine since it gives me a bigger crystal ball into the 'future' they will eventually get to.  Anyhow my question would be what do you guys and gals think of the ruleset.  I was origanlly going to use 3rd ed. becuase the Matrix is still around and updating stats from old books is fairly simple.  After poking around here though I have seen some people mention tweaking the 4th ed rules to make them more wired.  I would like to use 4th ed rules to prevent the need to relearn the game later but want to keep the flavor of old Matrix alive for old stories.  Just wondering how you peeps would run it.

[Fallen]

Hi!

From a non-3rd or 4th ed player/GM's point of view:

From what I've seen and read of the rules, mostly perusing these forums, and going through some supplements and the core rulebook at the local hobby store, it's my belief the SR4 rules are not very much compatible with previous editions.

Certainly, most concepts are the same, and the general premise is the same at the core.

However, to me, it feels like an entirely different game.  The sci-fi elements are more present, more advanced (as would make since, given the game now takes place in the 2070's), and the Matrix is a completely different thing.  However, the rules themselves appear to be solid enough that it wouldn't be very much difficult to make a game based off the 4th ed rules that takes place in previous timelines (I'm not sure I could recommend doing it the other way around: better to get a copy of SR4 and "retcon" the setting than to have to redo the characters entirely later on).

I will be getting a copy of SR4 however (order has already been placed, now waiting patiently for it to arrive) but, personally, I'll be running a different game with SR4 instead of incorporating it in my group's continuity.  That's one approach, and not necessarily the one that would work best for you.  Certainly, having your players go through the entire timeline is something that's bound to be very much immersive and altogether fun.  Still, I stand by my recommendation that you do so using the SR4 rules if only to avoid a major character reconstruction process later on.

Have fun and good luck!

[nakano]

Honestly I would use just one system, 3rd or 4th and tweak rules as need be.  If you use 4th the Runners Toolkit is a must.  It will make chargen and running as they learn the game much easier.  Beyond that, having run some long campaigns that were closely mapped out from the beginning I would strongly suggest you write out a chronology of events for the named runs you are planning on using.  This will provide you with a blueprint, which in my experience is a lifesaver.  Good luck and grats on having a gaming friendly wife. 

[FastJack]

The tweaks needed to use 4th in 2050 are actually not that horrible. Commlinks become Cyberdecks, cut out a bulk of Bioware, all of GeneTech and NanoTech, and deckers need datajacks to plug into the matrix. You toss the AR rules out (until after you get to Wireless). Magic and such remains pretty much the same (Social Adepts and Mystic Adepts are probably waaaay more rare) and so does most of the equipment/vehicles (Gun Haven Heaven even has Vintage weapons that you can use. The only major combat difference would be the Smartlink, since you need to implant it in 2050 versus having it on your contact lenses in 2070.

[baronspam]

Some things to consider-

Are the people in your group experienced gamers who are just new to Shadowrun, or are they new to tabletop RPGs?  Depending on which is the case it calls for very different approaches.

In either case, remember that these people have no nostalgia for either the system or the setting.  They neither know nor care who Harlequin is, etc.  It would be a very, very long campaign to get them from 2050 to 2072.  Are you sure you aren't doing this to satisfy your own sense of history/nostalgia with the system, rather than to provide an entertaining game for the players.

Also, if the group is new to table to rpgs, you have alot of work to do to just get them comfortable with the experience of playing a table top rpg.  I would concentrate far more on that then reviewing the timeline/game lore.  Pick a setting and stick to it.  Pick a rule set and let them get good with it.  Don't have them get comfortable with decking, have crash 2.0 happen, and then "hey, the matrix works all different now". 

So I guess my advice is to pick your favorite edition of the rules, and your favorite point in the timeline, and set a campaign there for them.  Trying to game through 20+ years of game time sounds like an attempt to give them YOUR experience of Shadowrun, which they will never have, because the only way to get it is to have played the game for 20 years.  Make it THEIR game, and make it fun, and expect it to be a novel experience for them and for you.

[Ranger]

Thanks for the info so far and yes I have mapped out the chronology of the published stuff as best as able.  I even went so far as to set them to the date of the news flash things that most of the older ones had.  I will probably run 4th ed rules with the changes and stuff mentioned.
Also if anyone would like to see the order and rough dates of the old stuff let me know.

[Ranger]

Maybe it is partly out of nolstagia but it does seem to be way more fun to play through things like the UB and the 2057 election other than to say 'oh yeah there was this kinda religous group that turned out to be evil bug spirits and the dragon got elected president was killed that night.'  As far as it taking a long time the primary player in the group is married to me so if I should have a commited player to see everything come to light. 
So I guess the first 10 years are probably my favorite but I don't like to set a specific end to things.  {erhaps it would have better if I said I am going to run an open ended campiagn that starts in 2050 and has no set end point.

[baronspam]

Maybe it is partly out of nolstagia but it does seem to be way more fun to play through things like the UB and the 2057 election other than to say 'oh yeah there was this kinda religous group that turned out to be evil bug spirits and the dragon got elected president was killed that night.'  As far as it taking a long time the primary player in the group is married to me so if I should have a commited player to see everything come to light. 
So I guess the first 10 years are probably my favorite but I don't like to set a specific end to things.  {erhaps it would have better if I said I am going to run an open ended campiagn that starts in 2050 and has no set end point.

As yourself this- is your group there to tour the timeline or to make a team of shadowruners and have fun with them.  Im not saying you can't do this but-

The character's story must be the most important thing, everything else is background, or they are just tourists.

Unless you are going to play through 22 years of game time which will take freaking forever(and it won't happen, groups never last that long, even the ones you are sleeping with), you are going to have to fequently jump ahead in time.  Make sure this is for your player's and THEIR story's benefit, not just something you want to do.

The players will likely care more about what is happening to their group than what happend in '57.  If the campaign is more about meta-fiction that player characters its not going to last.

If you can honestly check off all three of those things then go for it, but always, always remember its needs to be a story about the player's characters.  If they are just on a ride through the background fiction its a disaster waiting to happen.

[Walks Through Walls]

Another option would be to retrofit the "history" so that the matrix has been wireless since back in 2050 since we are already basically there. This would allow you to keep the flavor AR and VR along with the 4.0 rules as a whole. Maybe make wireless coverage spotty especially outside of the sprawls.

Just another thought and my 2 nuyen worth.

[Ranger]

Oh I understand the fact that the players must be the center of the story - I have been GMing for around 15 years now and have learned a few things along the way.  For example - the background story becomes more than just background story when the characters are invested in it one way or another.  And any enterprising GM has a bagful of tricks with which to accomplish that 

And sure we might not make it the whole way and catch up to the 'current' time but just imagine the fun that will be had if we do!

[Julius Q Enderby]

Good luck, Ranger. My group is running '57 now using SR4A rules, no AR, no technomancers other than enigmatic otaku in the background, commlinks are cyberdecks if they're good or pocket secretaries if they're cheap. The only tweaking I've done is effectively drop the Signal stat for commlinks/cyberdecks. The intent was to use Signal as the old Load ratings but frankly it's never even come up. Maybe if the team decker was more of a rules junkie...

We've been playing for a year now (real time anniversary coming up this week) and have only started introducing stuff from the core supplements like Street Magic and Augmentation with hints of stuff from Unwired. (A semi-regular contact of the group's is a dysfunctional AI, plus Renraku Arcology: Shutdown is looming in the semi-near future.)

We don't play particularly focused - in a year we've played 2 months of game time wrapping up a few runs from Super Tuesday and Shadows of the Underworld plus a few homebrews to set up the setting and get a feel for the rules. We started fairly canon but they've already skipped that railroad:

[spoiler]The decker has outed Anne Penchyk as a bug sympathiser at the very least or an actual mantis host at the worst to the Matrix at large before the Feds could sweep it under the carpet at the end of Dead Run. With Yeats assassinated and Penchyk at least character-assassinated, the Republican Party took a serious nose dive.[/spoiler]

More [spoiler]We just finished last session with the election of '57, festivities and cliffhanger ending of Dunkelzahn's assassination. Very rewarding to see the players pick up that the circumstances of the presidential limo's explosion have many similarities to their simulated planting of a "surveillance device" on Boothe's limo in the Vision Quest simulation from Dry Run.[/spoiler]

There was mild railroading to get to this point to set things up. Between the Big D's Will (2 of the PCs will be named in the will), Bug City, Blood in the Boardroom and perhaps a touch of Mob War we're going pretty sandbox from now on. Quite looking forward to it.

I don't expect to do a 2 decades tour straight to the 70s. But who knows? Good point by baronspam regarding trying to force nostalgia on the players. My motivation stems not so much from nostalgia but from the fact that my group wanted to play Shadowrun and I had a ton of previously unused - for me - material at hand. Sure, it's playing in the past. On the plus side, I have a good idea of where the canon meta-plot is headed for the next few decades. I have every confidence that my players will steer things nowhere near that yet still have a very (more?) satisfying result.

In conclusion, go nuts and have fun. 

[Ranger]

Yeah same here I have a pile of stufff that was unused (or if it was used was used at random) Or things that I just didn't do with other groups.  I am really looking forward to the UB stuff right now.  I figure each section of time will be more like its own campaign.  Halrequin will be the kick off from then move on to the UB then the electionand so on and so forth.  Harlequins will prolly get thrown in at some point and would probably be a mini campaign all on its own.  All this is going to be interspersed with my own evil tricks and plot devices. 

And yes I realize that unless we play like 40 hours a week odds are we will never get to the current timeline, but I am NOT afraid to find a good end point and start a new campaign set in a different point in time.  As any good GM knows NOTHING goes the way you thought it would once the ploayers get their hands on it