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Martial arts maneuver question

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Glyph

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« on: <09-18-10/1531:48> »
Arsenal has the martial arts quality, which allows you to buy maneuvers.  Now, the martial arts itself is a quality, but I have also seen a lot of people counting the maneuvers  towards the 35 point limit of positive qualities.

Nowhere in the rules does it say that the maneuvers are qualities, but it doesn't say exactly what they are, either.  I have always put them in with skills, but while I disagree with counting them as qualities, I can see how people could reason that.

So what does everyone think?  Do they count as qualities, or not?  I would really like for a dev to chime in - it would be great to have a semi-official answer on this.

anotherJack

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« Reply #1 on: <09-18-10/1536:12> »
They are not qualities, they are already limited by your martial art advantage level.
Me am french, me am not speaking good english, but me am trying to correct this.

Devil

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« Reply #2 on: <09-18-10/1548:43> »
Jack's right.

Critias

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« Reply #3 on: <09-18-10/1832:34> »
If it doesn't say they're qualities, they're not.  What's more, given how they're priced -- the same as specializations -- I, personally, would lump them in with skill points (for games that keep track of where each point gets spent).

FastJack

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« Reply #4 on: <09-19-10/0050:51> »
I agree with everyone else. If anything, add them as a sub-specialization of the Martial Arts specialization to the Unarmed Combat skill.

Devil

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« Reply #5 on: <09-19-10/0751:43> »
If you take the quality do you still need a skill specialization?

Usda Beph

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« Reply #6 on: <09-19-10/0823:53> »
They are not qualities, they are already limited by your martial art advantage level.
What does this mean? are we talking about the 5,10,15,20 BP lvl? If so how does this affect the manuvers?
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Irian

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« Reply #7 on: <09-19-10/0840:14> »
The rules say, that you may only take 2 maneuvers per 5BP in the quality.
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Devil

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« Reply #8 on: <09-19-10/0844:59> »
Why do people keep lumping them in with skills? They are really nothing like skills. They seem fairly unrelated too.

Irian

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« Reply #9 on: <09-19-10/0846:35> »
You don't NEED the skill specialization, it's purely optional - but as this will provide a nice bonus most of the time...
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Usda Beph

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« Reply #10 on: <09-19-10/0853:14> »
I think its because there is more room for skills than qualities *shrug*
Yeah, I'm A Minotaur! You Gotta Beef with that?
I'm a Minotaur not a bully!
I studied at the Rocky Mountain Culinary School.I specialized in Seafood.
My Dad worked out of el Toro In New Mexico.

Devil

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« Reply #11 on: <09-19-10/0903:53> »
Yeah the Shadowrun character sheets have never worked well for me. Too much room for this, not enough room for that, I don't even use that!

Now I typically just print my dude out of Word, leaving things blank that change often and filling them in pencil.

The character sheets are pretty, but really a game like this needs separate types of character sheets for different types of characters.

Usda Beph

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« Reply #12 on: <09-19-10/0917:41> »
Once I'm comfortable I have made D&D and CBTRPG sheets in excel that pumps the fomulas where they are needed so things like Init and stuff auto fill. Really nice for lazy gamers like myself. ;D
Yeah, I'm A Minotaur! You Gotta Beef with that?
I'm a Minotaur not a bully!
I studied at the Rocky Mountain Culinary School.I specialized in Seafood.
My Dad worked out of el Toro In New Mexico.

Devil

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« Reply #13 on: <09-19-10/0922:57> »
I'd do that in Indesign, but I'm too damn lazy. I'd be interested in seeing yours if you ever make any though.

Maybe someone out there has already made a character sheet with a specific spot for things like Martial Arts Maneuvers and Enemies. That would be pretty sweet.

Usda Beph

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« Reply #14 on: <09-19-10/0940:40> »
Well there is that 10 page pdf that was posted. I don't remember if it had slots for enemies, but it is pretty darn comprihensive.
Yeah, I'm A Minotaur! You Gotta Beef with that?
I'm a Minotaur not a bully!
I studied at the Rocky Mountain Culinary School.I specialized in Seafood.
My Dad worked out of el Toro In New Mexico.