[Bane]

Okay, so I am GMing a 2nd edition game, because I am an old hand at it. My players come up to some ghouls. The ghouls have poor eyesite, but enhanced senses of smell and hearing. It also states that they are able to function in normal everyday society, and do everything normally.

One of the players decided to roll around in sewege to hide himself (they were in a sewer) to overwhelm their enhanced smell. He did so thinking that they would no longer be able to "see" him as well.

I stated, they can still hear you, and you just have a little poop on you, so it's not fully covered up, and you still exhale, so that is also noticeable. He kept arguing that it would be very effective.

Something I think of now is there is already a big poop smell around you, and they can still "see" you through that. Having a little on your armor wouldn't do much. Maybe bathing in it for days, but not a quick roll.


What do you think, internet?

[Chrona]

Did they not have astral perception in 2nd? They'd see tasty human aura and ignore the smell in 4a

[corax]

they'd still smell him fine. he'd just be lest tasty as the outer layer of food would taste like poop.

[Stahlseele]

THey are dual natured, their astral perception is allways on by default and they don't get a -2 dice penalty for doing mundane stuff with astral perception.
bascially, they can see BETTER than anybody else can, they just have trouble with details.

[VileTerror]

Follow-up question to the Astral Perception:  If a ghoul's Magic score is reduced to 0, do they lose their ability to astrally perceive?

[JoeNapalm]

If they could only use scent, such as tracking (though Astral Perception can be used for tracking, can't it?), I might give him a -2 modifier to be tracked by smell.

Yes, he still leaves a scent, but that scent blends in somewhat with the background "noise" of the sewer.


[WARNING: Old-timey GM story ahead]
I had a player, ages ago (who I am currently playing SR4 with) in AD&D who rolled around in mud to avoid being detected by Orcs (AD&D spelling).

Player: "I roll in the mud! I make sure I'm totally covered!"

GM: "You're very muddy."

Player: "Now they can't see me!"

GM: "Well, they can't see you with infravision. Visible light still works."

Player (oblivious): "I'm like totally invisible!"

GM: "...and you're wearing plate mail. Noisy, noisy plate mail. And you're a Dwarf. A noisy, noisy Dwarf."

Player: "They'll never see me coming!"

Minutes later...

GM: "Now you're very muddy, and riddled with black-fletched arrows."

Player: "Cleeeeriiiiiiiic! Dwarf down! Dwarf down!"


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[Fallen]

Ghouls in 2nd ed are typically "savage" or feral as the game presents them as mostly having become feral due to the shock of Goblinization and how it affected their mental stability (the Krieger Strain of the HMHVV is introduced in a later source-book -- I can't recall which one at the moment, apologies).  However, yes, with a racial max of 4, it's very conceivable that an individual or a group of ghouls could be able to function in normal society (too bad they're shunned and hunted down, sort of makes it more difficult for them).  Or, at least, be functional enough to be crafty (I believe that was the initial goal with Ghouls).  In the "Eyewitness" game module, we encounter a ghoul with an Int rating of 6 who is not only able to function properly but strive on a corporate level.

In the end, ghouls are what you want to make them.

So far as tracking goes, your player's idea is not a bad one.  It would be appropriate, I think, to give the ghouls a +2 to +4 modifier on their Perception Test TN to spot or track him by scent (depending on how thorough his scent-masking is, and how convincing you find it to be).  Keep in mind that real-world animals, such as the bloodhound and bear, are rarely fooled by scent masking.  The reason is that everything leaves scent markers behind: skin cells, hair, chemicals, etc.  So you could rule that in your campaign, a ghoul's sense of smell is acute enough to compensate for their bad eyesight (and makes them on par with a bloodhound or bear).  One way you could go about it is adding the ghouls' Essence to their Perception dice to reflect the Enhanced Senses Power and resolve scent-based Perception Tests.

However, as others mentioned earlier in the thread, ghouls are Dual Nature beings (Essence 5), and would likely be capable of tracking him astrally (this time using their Essence score for an Assensing Test (if you plan on using it for a tracking test)).

Remember that whichever method you decide upon is ultimately your call -- and, so long as it makes sense within the bounds of the Rules as written, your player should accept your judgement call on it.

Good luck and have fun with your ghoulisheries!

[Stahlseele]

If a ghouls magic goes down to 0, the astral perception goes bye-bye.
They are now completely blind. If they don't find somebody to implant them with cyber-eyes.
Those still work for ghouls . .

[Bane]

Let me elaborate on this a little more.

A mage, a stealth guy, a heavy weapons guy, and a standard issue type street sam are in sewers. They arrive upon a nest of nine ghouls. They have some talking exchanged, and the ghouls just want them to leave, but the players stay (enticed by the bounty put on the ghoulies heads) before combat starts, the street sam says he takes a quick dunk in the sewer water, specifying that he is doing so quickly, and keeping his eyes on the ghouls. In my mind, that would do absolutely nothing. For tracking purposes, maybe. But not if they already see you and know you are there, can still smell you, and hear you, and have enough knowledge of you to have spoken.

You're not going to roll around in poop real quick and be invisible.

[Fallen]

In the situation you describe, I agree entirely.  The ghouls will spot him without difficulty even if he took a quick swim in the sewage.

It would be relevant if, say, he would have done so to avoid detection (Stealth Test, opposed with Intelligence (Perception)) -- using a Complex Action to roll his Stealth skill (and provided he moves out of the way in some fashion to make stealthy without being outright obvious -- remember, the ghouls can "see" him astrally regardless of being blind), then (provided they're not Assensing for tracking purposes) applying +modifiers for the ghouls' Perception roll would be appropriate, should you want to resolve the situation with dice.

[CanRay]

If a ghouls magic goes down to 0, the astral perception goes bye-bye.
They are now completely blind. If they don't find somebody to implant them with cyber-eyes.
Those still work for ghouls . .

BTW:  Ghoul Cab drivers all have cyberoptics.  They do, however, sometimes forget to use their headlights due to using infrared all the time. 

[Fallen]

Ghouls and Cyberware.

Just thought I'd clarify, as Bane mentions using SRII and not SR4:

In Second Edition, ghouls, HMHVV variants and Shape Shifters can't use Cyberware: it just gets "ejected" out of their systems once the change has taken place.

But hey, nothing's preventing anyone from being creative or taking cues from subsequent editions to go for an idea that's interesting! 

[Bane]

Fallen, and others, thank you for your help. I knew I was right.

It's annoying when players come up with some clever offhand idea, then get upset that it doesn't really work.

[CanRay]

Considering that SR2 was in the 2050s, IIRC, maybe they just hadn't figured out the method for cybernetically implanting Ghouls yet?

Although, I do wonder where the R&D money came from if they did have to figure it out...  Now that makes for some interesting thinking.

[Bane]

There are some twisted people in the SR universe... And the NPCs are pretty bad too...

Just a random idea I do sometimes is cybering out guard dogs.