[kirk]

Why don't non-riggers get drones?

I mean, an off-the-shelf FlySpy is only 2000. Slave it to your commlink so it can only be spoofed. It's a bit larger than a horsefly, so you can carry it anywhere pretty much unnoticed, and you can use it to do a quick recon of the next room Every Single Time. Zero need for any extra skills or tools, it'll take most "go there and look" without bobbling at all. Want to set a rear watch? No problem. If you don't like that the FlySpy is barely faster than your walking pace, get a slightly more noticeable OpticX or Aztech Crawler (1700 each). (Don't forget to gecko mod the crawler for another 300.) Both will outpace you even if you're a troll at a dead run.

Pick up a surprisingly inexpensive orderly for 2000, tell it to follow a room behind you and heal you if you order or if you fall. Excluding the armed team, it's almost as good as DocWagon's basic service for 40% of the cost, and you don't have to leave those pesky samples.

Heck, always have your personal escape vehicle on call. A Dalmation (large drone) costs 2200. Give it a rigger cocoon (another 1500) and have it sitting near but outside the worry zone and you have your own personal GTFO-mobile without having to trust anybody else. You're running up to the roof? Tell it to meet you there and wait. Don't forget to send your flyspy or other recon ahead to make sure the path is clear and you're not sending your rescue into the midst of the enemy.

Look, I can understand not wanting armed drones as a non-rigger. Spoof: "Shoot [target: me]." Yeah, not so good. But none of these are even restricted, just basically useful, street legal tools that cost less than a (cyber-) arm or leg.

So why don't people besides riggers buy them?

[FastJack]

Why don't non-riggers get drones?

I mean, an off-the-shelf FlySpy is only 2000. Slave it to your commlink so it can only be spoofed. It's a bit larger than a horsefly, so you can carry it anywhere pretty much unnoticed, and you can use it to do a quick recon of the next room Every Single Time. Zero need for any extra skills or tools, it'll take most "go there and look" without bobbling at all. Want to set a rear watch? No problem. If you don't like that the FlySpy is barely faster than your walking pace, get a slightly more noticeable OpticX or Aztech Crawler (1700 each). (Don't forget to gecko mod the crawler for another 300.) Both will outpace you even if you're a troll at a dead run.

Pick up a surprisingly inexpensive orderly for 2000, tell it to follow a room behind you and heal you if you order or if you fall. Excluding the armed team, it's almost as good as DocWagon's basic service for 40% of the cost, and you don't have to leave those pesky samples.

Heck, always have your personal escape vehicle on call. A Dalmation (large drone) costs 2200. Give it a rigger cocoon (another 1500) and have it sitting near but outside the worry zone and you have your own personal GTFO-mobile without having to trust anybody else. You're running up to the roof? Tell it to meet you there and wait. Don't forget to send your flyspy or other recon ahead to make sure the path is clear and you're not sending your rescue into the midst of the enemy.

Look, I can understand not wanting armed drones as a non-rigger. Spoof: "Shoot [target: me]." Yeah, not so good. But none of these are even restricted, just basically useful, street legal tools that cost less than a (cyber-) arm or leg.

So why don't people besides riggers buy them?

They totally can. However, you have to be a hacker to "jump into" a drone to do all the cool stuff. Otherwise, you're just giving it orders and letting it's dog-brain figure out how to do what you told it too. Since that dog-brain's not very bright, chances are the drone's going to get toasted when you're stuck in a firefight and don't have time to tell it to find cover. Then it because a very expensive pile of smashed electronics and melted plastics.

[Critias]

Why don't non-riggers get drones?

....

So why don't people besides riggers buy them?

Who says they don't?

[kirk]

Why don't non-riggers get drones?

....

So why don't people besides riggers buy them?

Who says they don't?

Build after build, and pbp after pbp, says so. 

[kirk]

They totally can. However, you have to be a hacker to "jump into" a drone to do all the cool stuff. Otherwise, you're just giving it orders and letting it's dog-brain figure out how to do what you told it too. Since that dog-brain's not very bright, chances are the drone's going to get toasted when you're stuck in a firefight and don't have time to tell it to find cover. Then it because a very expensive pile of smashed electronics and melted plastics.

First, you're not buying them for "cool stuff", you're buying them to do their basic job. Second, you'd be surprised what they can do just with their dog-brains.

As for being shot up in the first firefight, that makes no sense. Oh, it does if you were bringing a shooty drone. But none of those drones are going to be in the line of fire.  No, them getting shot up at the first firefight would seem to require you giving them stupid orders in the first place.

[Xzylvador]

Hm, probably a Rules thing and I'm horrified contradicting FastJack, but I'll write it anyways:

However, you have to be a hacker to "jump into" a drone to do all the cool stuff. Otherwise, you're just giving it orders and letting it's dog-brain figure out how to do what you told it too. Since that dog-brain's not very bright, chances are the drone's going to get toasted when you're stuck in a firefight and don't have time to tell it to find cover. Then it because a very expensive pile of smashed electronics and melted plastics.

SR4A p244: Rigger adaptation(*) allows anyone in VR to jump in to a rigger-adapted device and offers bonuses to any rigger with an implanted control rig(**).

Bold emphasis mine.
* The vehicle mod, which is automatically part of every drone.
** Which every rigger should have. It gives +2 dice to pretty much every jumped-in vehicle test.

In short, I don't see any reason a "normal person" with trodes or simrig couldn't jump in a drone.
The only real benefit a rigger's got is the +2 from Control Rig cyber-implant and the fact that his vehicle skills and protective software are probably better.

Why don't non-riggers get drones?

....

So why don't people besides riggers buy them?

Who says they don't?

Build after build, and pbp after pbp, says so. 

My face is really trying to save for it. A flyspy or dragonfly drone, awesome. At the moment she's only got a microweave spider drone, which I'm considering modding heavily with espionage mods. Who'd suspect some girly-fashion-drone? She could carry it anywhere in her purse and security would just allow it because it makes sense she'd have one in case of terrible wardrobe accidents.
But main reason not all of my chars have drones: there's 750.590Y worth of equipment on the to-get-list before drones. (On top: a bunch of R6 fake SINs and that 100kY piece of clothing which gives glamour.)

[FastJack]

Okay, let's get into the meaty bits then.

You've got your little FlySpy to scout out the room you're about to go into. It's a minidrone, so it has a Concealability of -2 to Perception tests for anyone in the room. You decide to use remote control to scout out the room. Using the Command program on your commlink* and your Pilot Aircraft (Remote Operations) skill 2 (+2 specialization), you get 10 dice to pilot it around the room. So, you scan out the room with it's Sensors (2), and you're able to make Perception checks with 8 dice (6 Command + 2 Sensor rating on the FlySpy). So you're able to fly it around the room and see all the guards in there without them noticing (Typical Sec Guard [SR4A, p. 281] has no Perception skill, defaults to Intuition [3] - 1 - 2 Concealability = 0 Dice). You're able to count up five guards and fly the drone back, or command it to hover out of the way while you breach the room and take out the guards.

*you sprung for the Rating 6 program since this is pretty important and the System 6 and Response 6 ratings on your commlink to run it, right? Otherwise, you're Command is limited by your System rating, which is limited by your Response. So if you have an average 'link, your Piloting check goes down.

But, what if you don't want to Remote Control it, since that's a Complex Action that could be better used making sure guards aren't sneaking up on you, or reloading your Ares Predator IV or something else. Okay, you send it a short command to fly around the room and broadcast it's sensor feed back to you. Now it has to rely on it's Pilot [3] and Response [Average device 3] ratings to fly around the room. You had a map of the building before you came in, so you know to instruct it's flight path to follow the walls. But, you didn't account for that one Troll guard that's leaning against the back wall. The drone flies toward him, but it's brain is registering an obstacle, so it has to roll it's 6 dice to see if it has the sense to fly around the obstacle [Dog-Brain's Common Sense (6d6.hits(5)=3)]. It's a pretty savvy drone, so it knows not to fly into the guard and flys around it.

Now, sure the drone only costs you 2,000¥. But to run the drone with a Command R6 program, you're going to have to buy the program (300¥), a decent Commlink (Hermes Ikon - 3,000¥), upgrade it's Response to 6 (8,000¥), a decent 'link OS (Novatech Navi - 1,500¥) and upgrading it to System 6 (3,000¥). That's a 17,800¥ for you to scout out rooms ahead of you.

Looking at the Healer 'Bot, the best you can do is a Small drone (Since the Valkyrie Modification is a Standard Mod, meaning you can't put it into micro-/mini-drones). So, you stuff an Aztech Crawler with the Valkyrie Modification, filling the two slots it has left after it's standard Walker Mode modification. Now the little guy follows along behind you, healing you whenever your Bio-Monitor drops below X. It's got a rating 4 Medkit on board, so it's got 4 dice to stabilize and heal you. But it can only do so once for that set of wounds, can only heal a maximum of 4 boxes and the number of boxes healed is the net hits it gets over the 2 threshold. You could upgrade it to the max 6 Rating, giving your drone 6 dice to heal you up, but without help, the chances are it's going to stabilize you enough for you to try and escape.

And the cost of upgrading your Azzie Crawler to a Rating 6 Autodoc brings it to about 3,900¥ (1,700¥ for Crawler + 2,000¥ for Valkyrie mod + 200¥ to upgrade to rating 6 Medkit) plus the cost to hire the guy to build it for you since the mod isn't standard.


I'm not trying to say it isn't a good idea to have drones hanging around your character. Buy to do so, you're going to have to invest a bit more than just the cost of the drone. When you're first building your character, ever BP counts. Now, if you're a Prime Runner, I can definitely see this a being a part of their SOP and I'd love to see this in-game for those Prime Runners, just for the James Bond factor. Just be prepared for all the possibilities.

[FastJack]

Hm, probably a Rules thing and I'm horrified contradicting FastJack, but I'll write it anyways:

However, you have to be a hacker to "jump into" a drone to do all the cool stuff. Otherwise, you're just giving it orders and letting it's dog-brain figure out how to do what you told it too. Since that dog-brain's not very bright, chances are the drone's going to get toasted when you're stuck in a firefight and don't have time to tell it to find cover. Then it because a very expensive pile of smashed electronics and melted plastics.

SR4A p244: Rigger adaptation(*) allows anyone in VR to jump in to a rigger-adapted device and offers bonuses to any rigger with an implanted control rig(**).

Bold emphasis mine.
* The vehicle mod, which is automatically part of every drone.
** Which every rigger should have. It gives +2 dice to pretty much every jumped-in vehicle test.

In short, I don't see any reason a "normal person" with trodes or simrig couldn't jump in a drone.
The only real benefit a rigger's got is the +2 from Control Rig cyber-implant and the fact that his vehicle skills and protective software are probably better.

You're right, anyone can with trodes or a simrig. So we can add the cost of those into my break-down above as well so you can jump-in to the drone. Of course, when you're jumped-in, you're in VR and senseless to the world around your body. And I think it goes against what Kirk is trying to do with just having a drone as a personal back-up.

[DWC]

Don't forget that a Command 6 program with a 300Y Optimization 3 option will run on a System of 3, cutting way, way down on your up front cost.  You can even mix in Encrypt 6 with Optimization 3 to give yourself some pathetic semblance of security.  There's no need to get a good commlink for remote controlling a drone that you're just using for cheap recon.  For 500Y more, you can get the Response 3 commlink optimized for Command, giving you 7 dice plus skill.  900 nuyen in software, 2k in commlink and OS, and a 500Y commlink modification puts you in pretty good shape, and you only lose actions commanding it if you don't think you can make the crash test.

[FastJack]

Thanks, DWC!

[kirk]

Okay, let's get into the meaty bits then.

You've got your little FlySpy to scout out the room you're about to go into. It's a minidrone, so it has a Concealability of -2 to Perception tests for anyone in the room. You decide to use remote control to scout out the room. Using the Command program on your commlink* and your Pilot Aircraft (Remote Operations) skill 2 (+2 specialization), you get 10 dice to pilot it around the room. So, you scan out the room with it's Sensors (2), and you're able to make Perception checks with 8 dice (6 Command + 2 Sensor rating on the FlySpy). So you're able to fly it around the room and see all the guards in there without them noticing (Typical Sec Guard [SR4A, p. 281] has no Perception skill, defaults to Intuition [3] - 1 - 2 Concealability = 0 Dice). You're able to count up five guards and fly the drone back, or command it to hover out of the way while you breach the room and take out the guards.

*you sprung for the Rating 6 program since this is pretty important and the System 6 and Response 6 ratings on your commlink to run it, right? Otherwise, you're Command is limited by your System rating, which is limited by your Response. So if you have an average 'link, your Piloting check goes down.

But, what if you don't want to Remote Control it, since that's a Complex Action that could be better used making sure guards aren't sneaking up on you, or reloading your Ares Predator IV or something else. Okay, you send it a short command to fly around the room and broadcast it's sensor feed back to you. Now it has to rely on it's Pilot [3] and Response [Average device 3] ratings to fly around the room. You had a map of the building before you came in, so you know to instruct it's flight path to follow the walls. But, you didn't account for that one Troll guard that's leaning against the back wall. The drone flies toward him, but it's brain is registering an obstacle, so it has to roll it's 6 dice to see if it has the sense to fly around the obstacle [Dog-Brain's Common Sense (6d6.hits(5)=3)]. It's a pretty savvy drone, so it knows not to fly into the guard and flys around it.

Now, sure the drone only costs you 2,000¥. But to run the drone with a Command R6 program, you're going to have to buy the program (300¥), a decent Commlink (Hermes Ikon - 3,000¥), upgrade it's Response to 6 (8,000¥), a decent 'link OS (Novatech Navi - 1,500¥) and upgrading it to System 6 (3,000¥). That's a 17,800¥ for you to scout out rooms ahead of you.

Looking at the Healer 'Bot, the best you can do is a Small drone (Since the Valkyrie Modification is a Standard Mod, meaning you can't put it into micro-/mini-drones). So, you stuff an Aztech Crawler with the Valkyrie Modification, filling the two slots it has left after it's standard Walker Mode modification. Now the little guy follows along behind you, healing you whenever your Bio-Monitor drops below X. It's got a rating 4 Medkit on board, so it's got 4 dice to stabilize and heal you. But it can only do so once for that set of wounds, can only heal a maximum of 4 boxes and the number of boxes healed is the net hits it gets over the 2 threshold. You could upgrade it to the max 6 Rating, giving your drone 6 dice to heal you up, but without help, the chances are it's going to stabilize you enough for you to try and escape.

And the cost of upgrading your Azzie Crawler to a Rating 6 Autodoc brings it to about 3,900¥ (1,700¥ for Crawler + 2,000¥ for Valkyrie mod + 200¥ to upgrade to rating 6 Medkit) plus the cost to hire the guy to build it for you since the mod isn't standard.


I'm not trying to say it isn't a good idea to have drones hanging around your character. Buy to do so, you're going to have to invest a bit more than just the cost of the drone. When you're first building your character, ever BP counts. Now, if you're a Prime Runner, I can definitely see this a being a part of their SOP and I'd love to see this in-game for those Prime Runners, just for the James Bond factor. Just be prepared for all the possibilities.

Why are you spending all that on your healbot?  Look again at the bot I stated, the EVO Orderly - AR-120. 2 Mechanical Arms, Special Machinery (Medkit 6), Walker Mode, stretcher bed, medium drone, all for 2000¥. It is almost literally designed as a first-response medical drone.

As to your flyspy, why are you ignoring it entirely? It's recon, and it's not going to just tell you what it sees.  Tell it to fly into the next room. You've got its camera as an open window in your commlink, and see that whoops there are guards in there. Time to get a little more micro in the management - tell it to land on that window ledge so you can have it slowly pan the room and see where they all are. Plan out who's taking on what in what order - and do you maybe need to pop a smoke grenade before you enter?

There's no need to Command it in this case.  And the only tests will be a quick perception while it's flying to a landing site - even if it's the floor.

(one thing I wish the flyspy came with was gecko tips so it can land and hold on walls. But right now I'm staying with unmodified options.)

[kirk]

Maybe it would help if I included the two drones I consider to be the MOST generally useful, and explain their use. Neither is as inexpensive as the first pass.

Drone one is the dragonfly. The hard part is the 12R for availability.  When I can afford it I add an NLJD. Until then I use the ultrasound it already comes with, adding an audio enhancer(3) and a spatial recognizer to a rating 6 microphone (1 slot, +700¥) for an initial price of 3200¥. Its standard order if launched is to search any room I occupy for sensors and identify them for me. I will see, in part of my commlink's holographic display (common to all commlinks) a rolling list of these, each of which I can expand for more info. I can target any or all, prioritize, and order my dragonfly to kill them just as easily as I can scroll through a list of names and set up a mass text message on my smartphone -- easier, actually, because that's a default action for the dragonfly.

It is no major deal to send my dragonfly into the next room, examine the ultrasound/sound map to see if the room is occupied, and if it's not tell the dragonfly to clear the room of sensors.

Second drone, and in many ways the one that I would think would be the FIRST choice of most players, is the GM Mr. Fix-It (RC 152). My DOG, how did they let this little gem slip past for only 6000¥?

Only? Yes. Any Build/Repair Autosoft(3), toolkit, and mechanical arm. (With my GM hat on I say that means any ONE autosoft, but it's not phrased as well as it could be and if you can persuade your GM it means more, more power to you.) The fluff even mentions auto and "electrical" standard tool kits, and states "An entire line of specialty tool kits is available for home-hobbyists."

Remember your objections to finding someone to mod a drone or a weapon? There's my answer. You might have to buy or get access to a shop. There are still going to be some things you can't get. But a couple of examples: A rigger cocoon requires an auto mechanic, toolkit, and has a threshold of 6.  Adding a smartgun (internal) system to all my firearms? Armorer autosoft, a shop, and a threshold of 8. Yes, it'll take a month at a time but I can literally put it in there and walk away till it's done. (A GM issue: if it's being done by a system like this, is it a test per day or a test per "working day"? Mr. Fix-it doesn't sleep, eat, or have to keep contacts current.)

Everybody has gear they want modified, that needs repaired. It's a heck of a lot less expensive. (GM note: might need a little hacker help if you want it to do something that's restricted or forbidden.  Easiest is to hack in and ID you as authorized to request those mods, but your GM's mileage may vary.)

[Chrona]

the two slots it has left after it's standard Walker Mode modification.

Wait I thought standard mods don't take slots

[FastJack]

Issuing Commands
     You give a short command to the drone or other device with the Issuing Command action (p. 245). The drone attempts to execute those orders autonomously on its own action phase. You need to be able to communicate with the drone, via the Matrix for example, but do not need to be subscribed to the drone.
     As a general rule, the gamemaster can assume that the sophisticated robotic brain of a drone understands any commands that are issued to it, as long as these commands are within the device’s usual range of function. An MCT-Nissan Roto-drone, for example, will understand commands regarding flight paths, tracking targets, using sensors, and so forth. If ordered to bump a ganger off his motorbike or stop a rampaging spirit, however, the Pilot will likely fail to understand. Pilots are computer programs, and so take their commands literally—sometimes too literally. If the gamemaster feels that a command falls within a gray area or is simply too convoluted, he can roll a secret Pilot + Response Test for the Pilot to see how well it comprehends the order, basing the threshold on an appropriate difficulty level.
     An autosoft can be used to expand the definition of a drone’s “function” in terms of what commands it can understand. For example, a welding drone would normally be confused by orders to use its torch to attack a target, but the same drone running a Targeting (Welding Torch) program would have no trouble comprehending the command.

Remote Control
     You control a device by running the Command program. You may control only one drone at a time, and must have an active subscription to that drone. You use your Command rating in place of the attribute for the dice pool for any action you take (except for Perception Tests, which use the drone’s Sensor rating in place of your Perception). When using this method, you use a set of “controls” that exist in either AR or VR (as appropriate). This method of control is a Matrix action. Controlling a drone is a Complex Action, even if the drone would be performing a Simple Action such as firing a semi-automatic weapon or using the Take Aim action. Unless already executing an ongoing action on the rigger’s behalf, a remote controlled drone acts only when it receives commands (ie. on the rigger’s action).

The FlySpy, when not being directly controlled, goes on it's own initiative pass, separate from yours. If you give it a flight path and it's about to hit something, it's going to happen on it's turn, not yours. You can delay and wait and see what's going to happen, then take control, but if you're going to do that, there's no reason to let it go on it's own in the first place. When the drone is operating autonomously, it's Initiative is it's Pilot + Response (6 dice) and it goes on it's own turn:

Drone Initiative
     Like any program, the drone’s Pilot acts at digital speeds. Drone Initiative equals Pilot rating + Response, and they receive two extra Initiative Passes (three total). When a rigger has jumped into the drone, it acts on the rigger’s Initiative instead. If a rigger jumps out of a drone, it acts with the same Initiative Score for the remainder of the Combat Turn.

I'll give you the EVO Orderly, it's a nice piece of machinery. It's also Medium-sized (little bigger than a large dog). I used the Azzie Crawler to show a small-sized drone that you could easier pick up and take with you if you have to high-tail it out of there.

The Dragonfly is good, but like the FlySpy, you either have to trust it on it's own initiative pass, or control it directly. They simply aren't that smart.

I do like the GM Mr. Fix-it. But again, it's dice pool is only 6 for any B/R test (Device Rating 3 + Autosoft Rating 3). So, it's going to work for a while on those repairs, and if you're not buying hits, you'd have to worry about glitches.

the two slots it has left after it's standard Walker Mode modification.

Wait I thought standard mods don't take slots

Sorry, you're right. I was responding from work and forgot about that.

[Chrona]

the two slots it has left after it's standard Walker Mode modification.

Wait I thought standard mods don't take slots

Sorry, you're right. I was responding from work and forgot about that.
[/quote]

No problem, i just worried for a second