NEWS

More questions from a new DM don't you love us?

  • 134 Replies
  • 24154 Views

beowulf_of_wa

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 752
  • just say no to rotary assault cannons and bubba.
« Reply #30 on: <08-08-11/1514:06> »
Space: the final frontier. where no one can hear you scream, the mage is twitching from no astral connection, the hacker is giggling from all the Wifi in the air, and the razorboy is crying cuz all they let him bring were the ares squirt and a normal knife.

the perfect location to run my players through a one-shot based on the movie pandorum. "orbital facility" (i swear it's really not a colony ship) experimenting on surge changelings, no magic seems to work, and no monster stomping weapons. and, GO!

Caution flag: a run in which the mage can't use magic 'just because' is going to be very little fun for the mage player.  Think long and hard about this.

noted, though i does help that the current group all dislike mages with a passion. the team motto would be frag the mage first and second, if they had a motto.
Carpe Noctem (seize the night)
Carpe per Diem (seize the pay), Carpe Dentum (seize the teeth), Carpe Denim (seize the pants)
Carpe Panem (seize the bread/capital)

no, i won't "just get over it."

NERPS!! for idiocy! NERPS!! for the minty fresh feeling! NERPS!! for gods! NERPS!! for guard duty!

JoeNapalm

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1309
  • Ifriti Sophist
« Reply #31 on: <08-08-11/1520:31> »


Frag the mage eh? Well then I guess i'll have to be careful when i play my mage then. XD Not that I don't already know that. Had a question however, for lightning ball. How do you calculate the damage? It seems to be different than say a fireball which i believe is half impact + full body resistance test. Can you "dodge spells?"

Depends on the spell.

Combat spells come in either a Direct/Indirect variety - for instance, a Stun or Mana bolt cannot be Dodged, because the Mage is pumping Mana directly into the target's Aura.

They get WIL to resist, but no Dodge. No armor, either.

Which is why you frag the Mage first. Heh.

(Of course, my Mage is a Formori Troll - last group of guys we got into it with tried to fat pile him with less than optimal results...he carries a hardened walking stick that happens to be a Weapon Focus. I think the phrase that was used to describe the outcome for the bad guys was "clubbed like a baby harp seal.")

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

Zilfer

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1326
« Reply #32 on: <08-08-11/1612:23> »
O.O' I have one responce to the above...

The staff! I told you to grab the wizards staff!
Having access to Ares Technology isn't so bad, being in a room that's connected to the 'trix with holographic display throughout the whole room isn't bad either. Food, drinks whenever you want it. Over all not bad, but being unable to leave and with a Female Dragon? No Thanks! ~The Captive Man

Trenchknife

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 108
« Reply #33 on: <08-08-11/1625:50> »
The answer to any mage and his stuff...


Ritual Magic
It's not the man with the gun that gets you.  It's the three bullets he fired that tore through you vital organs that's killed you.

Zilfer

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1326
« Reply #34 on: <08-09-11/1739:20> »
So had another question for you guys. Does anyone allow anyone to do the spend an edge for a critical success? Iím sure if you do you restrict what they can do with it, because it would be ridiculous to use that against shooting the big baddie boss they may be facing. xD

Also how often do you have the enemy/npcís spend edge? I just got done reading the professional rating section of the book. Think it was a pretty good way to look at edge in squads, the joint pool of edge. Between me and my friends I think weíve already had an example of uses Edge too much DMing. My friend DMíd not too long ago, and he used it quite a bit. (like I swear 10 times in one battle) Itís ok however, my mage was still able to take them.

Also, I got a question for any mage players out there. How important are spirits? And do you over cast a lot? I found myself overcastting quite a bit with a 6 magic, and I even did an overcastting 12 a few times. Once it was pretty bad ass because I threw a force 12 and then retreated and healed myself from 6 physical damage and then resisted all the stun damage from force 6 healing spell. So it was like I hadnít even casted it.

Anyways, opinions? I know Drain can be a real bummer if your roll fails. With 9 dice however most of the time I can resist most of it. Unless itís like lightning bolt or lightning ball. I like the sleep ball however because I only have to resist 6 physical drain, and I add in my focus +3 to spell casting to my drain roll and it usually comes out alright. :D none lethal for the win! XD

This mage has Six edge btw, probably too high for a human mage but eh, I figured it gave me some bargaining room. Is there any negatives for wearing armor for a mage curiously? I know in DnD armor restricts movement and being able to cast. Havenít found anything like that in shadowrun. If someone knows could they point me in the right direction in the book?
Having access to Ares Technology isn't so bad, being in a room that's connected to the 'trix with holographic display throughout the whole room isn't bad either. Food, drinks whenever you want it. Over all not bad, but being unable to leave and with a Female Dragon? No Thanks! ~The Captive Man

Charybdis

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1506
  • If it's last name is Dragon, first name Great: RUN
« Reply #35 on: <08-09-11/1902:28> »
So had another question for you guys. Does anyone allow anyone to do the spend an edge for a critical success? Iím sure if you do you restrict what they can do with it, because it would be ridiculous to use that against shooting the big baddie boss they may be facing. xD

Also how often do you have the enemy/npcís spend edge? I just got done reading the professional rating section of the book. Think it was a pretty good way to look at edge in squads, the joint pool of edge. Between me and my friends I think weíve already had an example of uses Edge too much DMing. My friend DMíd not too long ago, and he used it quite a bit. (like I swear 10 times in one battle) Itís ok however, my mage was still able to take them.

Also, I got a question for any mage players out there. How important are spirits? And do you over cast a lot? I found myself overcastting quite a bit with a 6 magic, and I even did an overcastting 12 a few times. Once it was pretty bad ass because I threw a force 12 and then retreated and healed myself from 6 physical damage and then resisted all the stun damage from force 6 healing spell. So it was like I hadnít even casted it.

Anyways, opinions? I know Drain can be a real bummer if your roll fails. With 9 dice however most of the time I can resist most of it. Unless itís like lightning bolt or lightning ball. I like the sleep ball however because I only have to resist 6 physical drain, and I add in my focus +3 to spell casting to my drain roll and it usually comes out alright. :D none lethal for the win! XD

This mage has Six edge btw, probably too high for a human mage but eh, I figured it gave me some bargaining room. Is there any negatives for wearing armor for a mage curiously? I know in DnD armor restricts movement and being able to cast. Havenít found anything like that in shadowrun. If someone knows could they point me in the right direction in the book?
A) Edge on critical successes? No. Too powerful an option.... You can already use edge to reroll failures, or add exploding dice to a roll. To just give automatic success is a bit overboard

B) If enemies have Edge, my GM will use all of it in a fight (And when GM'ing, so do I  ::) ). Enemies are generally designed to use everything they have in a single encounter (which is why they don't have 5-10 spare clips of ammo like most Shadowrunners ;) )

C) You cannot use magic to heal drain (either Stun or Physical). This is in the rulebook. You can however use technical means (Medkits, First Aid skill etc)..
Quote from: SR4a p.178
Neither Stun nor Physical damage resulting from Drain can be healed by magical means such as sorcery or spirit powers.

D) The importance of Spirits varies greatly. Some mages use them more than spells, other's rarely use them at all. It's a powerful mechanical option, but requires skills and resources to be done properly. Kind of like a Street Sam choosing to focus on Heavy Weapons vs Automatics... both are great, but they're just a different option to take...

E) Overcasting is very useful, but only in certain circumstances, so my answer is no, I don't do it a lot (mainly because it's so Frickin' hard to heal!). Unless I'm damned sure I can take the drain (normally with Edge used on the drain test) I don't use it....
Note: I really think you'll overcast less when now you know you can't heal the drain damage yourself... ;) 

F) If you have 9 dice for drain, and a +3 focus, and are regularly resisting 6 drain, then that is some excellent dice rolls my friend. On average you need 18 dice to resist this, not 12.
Note: What sort of Focus is it? If it's just a normal Rating 3 Combat Spell focus, then the +3 dice add to Spellcasting tests only (NOT drain tests). This is as per the rules on SR4A p.199, and means you really only have 9 dice for drain, regardless of Focus.

G) Nothing wrong with 6 Edge. It's exactly the same as my primary character, and I find it incredibly useful :)
« Last Edit: <08-09-11/1907:40> by Charybdis »
'Too much is never enough'

Current PC: Free Spirit (Norse Shamanic)
'Names are irrelevant. Which fake ID do you want me to quote from?'

Phreak Commandment V:
If Thou Be In School, Strive To Get Thine Self Good Grades, For The Authorities Well Know That Scholars Never Break The Law

Zilfer

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1326
« Reply #36 on: <08-09-11/1938:27> »
So had another question for you guys. Does anyone allow anyone to do the spend an edge for a critical success? Iím sure if you do you restrict what they can do with it, because it would be ridiculous to use that against shooting the big baddie boss they may be facing. xD

Also how often do you have the enemy/npcís spend edge? I just got done reading the professional rating section of the book. Think it was a pretty good way to look at edge in squads, the joint pool of edge. Between me and my friends I think weíve already had an example of uses Edge too much DMing. My friend DMíd not too long ago, and he used it quite a bit. (like I swear 10 times in one battle) Itís ok however, my mage was still able to take them.

Also, I got a question for any mage players out there. How important are spirits? And do you over cast a lot? I found myself overcastting quite a bit with a 6 magic, and I even did an overcastting 12 a few times. Once it was pretty bad ass because I threw a force 12 and then retreated and healed myself from 6 physical damage and then resisted all the stun damage from force 6 healing spell. So it was like I hadnít even casted it.

Anyways, opinions? I know Drain can be a real bummer if your roll fails. With 9 dice however most of the time I can resist most of it. Unless itís like lightning bolt or lightning ball. I like the sleep ball however because I only have to resist 6 physical drain, and I add in my focus +3 to spell casting to my drain roll and it usually comes out alright. :D none lethal for the win! XD

This mage has Six edge btw, probably too high for a human mage but eh, I figured it gave me some bargaining room. Is there any negatives for wearing armor for a mage curiously? I know in DnD armor restricts movement and being able to cast. Havenít found anything like that in shadowrun. If someone knows could they point me in the right direction in the book?
A) Edge on critical successes? No. Too powerful an option.... You can already use edge to reroll failures, or add exploding dice to a roll. To just give automatic success is a bit overboard

B) If enemies have Edge, my GM will use all of it in a fight (And when GM'ing, so do I  ::) ). Enemies are generally designed to use everything they have in a single encounter (which is why they don't have 5-10 spare clips of ammo like most Shadowrunners ;) )

C) You cannot use magic to heal drain (either Stun or Physical). This is in the rulebook. You can however use technical means (Medkits, First Aid skill etc)..
Quote from: SR4a p.178
Neither Stun nor Physical damage resulting from Drain can be healed by magical means such as sorcery or spirit powers.

D) The importance of Spirits varies greatly. Some mages use them more than spells, other's rarely use them at all. It's a powerful mechanical option, but requires skills and resources to be done properly. Kind of like a Street Sam choosing to focus on Heavy Weapons vs Automatics... both are great, but they're just a different option to take...

E) Overcasting is very useful, but only in certain circumstances, so my answer is no, I don't do it a lot (mainly because it's so Frickin' hard to heal!). Unless I'm damned sure I can take the drain (normally with Edge used on the drain test) I don't use it....
Note: I really think you'll overcast less when now you know you can't heal the drain damage yourself... ;) 

F) If you have 9 dice for drain, and a +3 focus, and are regularly resisting 6 drain, then that is some excellent dice rolls my friend. On average you need 18 dice to resist this, not 12.
Note: What sort of Focus is it? If it's just a normal Rating 3 Combat Spell focus, then the +3 dice add to Spellcasting tests only (NOT drain tests). This is as per the rules on SR4A p.199, and means you really only have 9 dice for drain, regardless of Focus.

G) Nothing wrong with 6 Edge. It's exactly the same as my primary character, and I find it incredibly useful :)


!!! good to know about the Drain not being healable by magic. But no I've been resisting drain like a pro. When I DM my players hated this one gang member that i gave decent armor cus he pretty much massicured the group with rolls like 6 hits out of 8. XD

And the spell focus i believe i got specifically for drain, however I'll double check that. Thanks for double checking me. I appreciate it very much since reading the book sometimes you read a rule and it disappears when you learn the next rule!
Having access to Ares Technology isn't so bad, being in a room that's connected to the 'trix with holographic display throughout the whole room isn't bad either. Food, drinks whenever you want it. Over all not bad, but being unable to leave and with a Female Dragon? No Thanks! ~The Captive Man

Medicineman

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2310
« Reply #37 on: <08-10-11/0159:24> »
Quote
So had another question for you guys. Does anyone allow anyone to do the spend an edge for a critical success? Iím sure if you do you restrict what they can do with it, because it would be ridiculous to use that against shooting the big baddie boss they may be facing. xD
Wait til You get bitten by a Ghoul ;)

Quote
Also how often do you have the enemy/npcís spend edge?
Sometimes ,mainly to survive.
Mooks get a Group edge that I use only sparingly (only when its important )

Quote
How important are spirits?
generally speaking ? very !

Quote
And do you over cast a lot?
with Spells ? often.
with Spirits ? rather never !

Hough !
Medicineman

http://english.bouletcorp.com/2013/08/02/the-long-journey/
---------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1V7fi5IqYw
---------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RYlAPjyNm8

The Big Peat

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 349
« Reply #38 on: <08-10-11/0408:54> »
I try to spend Edge for NPCs like I would for PCs. Sparingly and with an eye to saving my arse.

Spirits are as important as you want them to be. Certainly powerful, possibly too powerful, and if you push every advantage you can get with them to the edge almost definitley too powerful. Don't be the person who does that. Its not cool.

Charybdis

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1506
  • If it's last name is Dragon, first name Great: RUN
« Reply #39 on: <08-10-11/0617:01> »
I try to spend Edge for NPCs like I would for PCs. Sparingly and with an eye to saving my arse.

Spirits are as important as you want them to be. Certainly powerful, possibly too powerful, and if you push every advantage you can get with them to the edge almost definitley too powerful. Don't be the person who does that. Its not cool.
On NPC Edge... really?  ??? I blow it as fast as they can spend it. Seeing as many NPC's only get 3'ish Complex actions before PC's go out of their way to focus fire, I use it all ASAP.

Aww, what's wrong with pushing spirit powers way up there :P A little bit of Invoking and Channelling is good for the soul....
'Too much is never enough'

Current PC: Free Spirit (Norse Shamanic)
'Names are irrelevant. Which fake ID do you want me to quote from?'

Phreak Commandment V:
If Thou Be In School, Strive To Get Thine Self Good Grades, For The Authorities Well Know That Scholars Never Break The Law

The Big Peat

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 349
« Reply #40 on: <08-10-11/0923:05> »
Yup. If my NPCs blow edge significantly faster than a PC would on account of me knowing metagame that he's screwed, that's an unfair advantage. Obviously, if its all going wrong, then yes, break it out. But I'm working on the belief that the NPC should behave like he's expecting to need edge afterwards, just like a PC. Although if I notice PC liberalism with edge, I often metagamingly follow suit. Theoretically at least. This bit is very theoretical, as I've only GM'ed two Shadowrun games. It makes sense to me though!

And I wasn't even thinking of Channeling and Invoking. I was just thinking of the wonders of Overcasting to get higher Force spirits, or just spamming as many force 6 spirits as possible. Mindyou, this might be a faulty grasp of the mechanics at play, but everything i've seen on them, and of them, says very scary.

Onion Man

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 536
  • Internet is a proper noun, capitalize every time
« Reply #41 on: <08-10-11/0925:48> »
No looking nojosecool:

[spoiler]I like to save a point of Edge on key antagonists so I can bring them back.  My group last week handled a Horizon team far too easily... they're not all dead.  Some of them have to pop up again, even some of the ones that were by all rights "killed".[/spoiler]
Description/Narrative
{Thoughts}
"Conversation"
"Voice over commlink"
Code: [Select]
Text over commlinkOrson "Pig" Fletcher

beowulf_of_wa

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 752
  • just say no to rotary assault cannons and bubba.
« Reply #42 on: <08-10-11/1225:01> »
many players seem to forget that the same game mechanics that keep them from having to gen a new char each game work for the GM too, more so in fact.
Carpe Noctem (seize the night)
Carpe per Diem (seize the pay), Carpe Dentum (seize the teeth), Carpe Denim (seize the pants)
Carpe Panem (seize the bread/capital)

no, i won't "just get over it."

NERPS!! for idiocy! NERPS!! for the minty fresh feeling! NERPS!! for gods! NERPS!! for guard duty!

Charybdis

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1506
  • If it's last name is Dragon, first name Great: RUN
« Reply #43 on: <08-10-11/1900:41> »
Yup. If my NPCs blow edge significantly faster than a PC would on account of me knowing metagame that he's screwed, that's an unfair advantage. Obviously, if its all going wrong, then yes, break it out. But I'm working on the belief that the NPC should behave like he's expecting to need edge afterwards, just like a PC. Although if I notice PC liberalism with edge, I often metagamingly follow suit. Theoretically at least. This bit is very theoretical, as I've only GM'ed two Shadowrun games. It makes sense to me though!

And I wasn't even thinking of Channeling and Invoking. I was just thinking of the wonders of Overcasting to get higher Force spirits, or just spamming as many force 6 spirits as possible. Mindyou, this might be a faulty grasp of the mechanics at play, but everything i've seen on them, and of them, says very scary.
Both the number of spirits you can have and the force of those spirits are limited by Attributes (Charisma for number, Magic x2 for Force), so it's not limitless power, but definitely very scary :)

Downside is the tricky nature of healing Physical drain on overcasting. Summoning is pretty nasty in that regard....

As for edge, maybe I mis-spoke. If I (as GM) know the goons in question are a 1-hit wonder, then I'll unload.
If it's a cunning, sneaky foe, then yes I'm more sparing on the edge, saving it for a particularly evil use (up to and including Burning edge to survive).
'Too much is never enough'

Current PC: Free Spirit (Norse Shamanic)
'Names are irrelevant. Which fake ID do you want me to quote from?'

Phreak Commandment V:
If Thou Be In School, Strive To Get Thine Self Good Grades, For The Authorities Well Know That Scholars Never Break The Law

Zilfer

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1326
« Reply #44 on: <08-10-11/1902:28> »
No looking nojosecool:

[spoiler]I like to save a point of Edge on key antagonists so I can bring them back.  My group last week handled a Horizon team far too easily... they're not all dead.  Some of them have to pop up again, even some of the ones that were by all rights "killed".[/spoiler]

o.O'

The ol' Hand of God trick. Yeah I'm actually having trouble with coming up with a bad guy as a reoccuring character. Partly because I'm not sure i have a campaign storyline fully set up. Or where I want to take it because there are so many options.

I know if i could have them betrayed by another shadowrunner they run into at an opertune moment that'd be kind cool and just have him reoccuer ever few missions down the line.

You mind sharing with a new DM some of your devious villians and what they've done or how they were introduced/you came up with them? If so it would be appreciated. Very much so. :D

On a side note, I think I under use shotguns. Not once have I given an NPC a shotgun. Thoughts on this? Are they as deadly close range as they are in real life? :D thanks!

Also a question about my character. I made him on the princible, (this is probably something i should post on that character creation board huh?) on using pretty much only pistols. Is a 20 Dice pool pretty good? (This was before I saw the Adapt Gunslinger which I am now interested in but i don't think the DM will allow me to remake my character so aw well.) If your curious how it adds up to 20, it's (+7 Pistols,yes i took the feat for that, and then +9 for agility. Enhanced with bioware for that. Then I have specialization on heavy pistols which i use most of the time. +2, and then +2 for smartlink. Total of 20, if I edge 27)
Having access to Ares Technology isn't so bad, being in a room that's connected to the 'trix with holographic display throughout the whole room isn't bad either. Food, drinks whenever you want it. Over all not bad, but being unable to leave and with a Female Dragon? No Thanks! ~The Captive Man