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Banishing and Summoning (Easy Answer I bet)

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Beansidhe

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« on: <09-17-10/1745:38> »
After Banishing the action to Summon the Spirit that was Banished is as normal, correct?  I'm just wondering because it would make it somewhat difficult for the mage that Banished the Spirit to remake the Summoning test (would need 3 IP or to delay and beat the Spirit from what I understand). 

My understanding is that it takes the normal action, but I just want to make sure.  Thanks again chummer!

Walks Through Walls

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« Reply #1 on: <09-17-10/1911:33> »
Yes the summoning test is a normal. So you would have to act again before the spirit
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anotherJack

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« Reply #2 on: <09-18-10/0427:47> »
I'm not sure… in some case there's a time (If I remember well, 28 days - force of the spirit) until a spirit can come back to our world.
Me am french, me am not speaking good english, but me am trying to correct this.

Magus

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« Reply #3 on: <09-18-10/1119:26> »
Pg 166 SR4A: BANISHING: if the services are reduced to 0, the spirit returns to its home UNLESS a magician IMMEDIATELY moves to summon it once again. It is through this a magician can gain access to spirits that are outside his tradition. Much the same way Technomancers throught the Sprite Link echo can form other sprites.
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anotherJack

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« Reply #4 on: <09-18-10/1124:40> »
Pg 166 SR4A: BANISHING: if the services are reduced to 0, the spirit returns to its home UNLESS a magician IMMEDIATELY moves to summon it once again. It is through this a magician can gain access to spirits that are outside his tradition.
I don't think it works : it means the magician must make a summon test, but a little bit above in the book, it's said a magician can summon only spirits compatibles with his tradition (sorry, I can't tell you the page and so, since my core rulebook is in french). So I don't think the magician can summon the spirit he just bannished if it's not a spirit compatible with his tradition.
Me am french, me am not speaking good english, but me am trying to correct this.

Magus

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« Reply #5 on: <09-18-10/1131:01> »
BANISHING pg 188 SR4A:
Banishing is the process of severing the tie between spirit and summoner—
in a way, it is the opposite of summoning/binding. Banishing
takes a Complex Action and is handled as an Opposed Test. The banisher
rolls Banishing + Magic. The target spirit rolls Force if unbound
or Force + summoner’s Magic if bound. The banishing magician may
use a banishing focus (p. 199) to increase her dice pool.
Each net hit scored by the magician reduces the services owed by
the spirit by one (including any it is currently engaged in). If the spirit’s
services are reduced to 0, the spirit will seek to depart on its next
action. The banishing magician (or any magician within line of sight,
for that matter), can make a Summoning Test against the spirit before
it departs, bringing the spirit into her own service instead. A spirit banished
and then summoned this way can later be bound as well.
Banishing causes Drain equal to twice the hits (not net hits)
scored by the spirit on the Opposed Test (minimum 2 DV). If the
spirit is banished and then summoned, the new summoner must take
summoning Drain as well.

Any Spirit type may be banished and then captured PokeBall Style.
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anotherJack

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« Reply #6 on: <09-18-10/1140:16> »
Yay, I know, but in the french version, p.188 :

INVOCATION :
Un magicien ne peut invoquer que les esprits compatibles avec sa tradition […]

And banishing :

[…]Le magicien bannisseur (ou tout autre magicien en ligne de vue, en fait) peut effectuer un Test D'invocation contre l'esprit avant qu'il ne parte, pour l'obliger à se mettre à son service[…]

So, the banishing magician must make a summonning test against the spirit BUT a magician can use summoning only for spirits of his tradition.
1) Condition to summoning = spirits of the magician tradition
2) banishing magicien must make a summoning test
1+2)  Banishing magician can't do this summoning test against a spirit which is not of his tradition.

Unless it's official that the can do this (and it would please me since my main character is a summoner), I'm really not convinced it works.
Me am french, me am not speaking good english, but me am trying to correct this.

Magus

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« Reply #7 on: <09-18-10/1143:30> »
This actually looks like it is another regional thing. Much like in the German Sourcebooks they have things that the English things do not. The French SBs may be the same. I wish they were all universally the same.
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anotherJack

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« Reply #8 on: <09-18-10/1151:40> »
The core rulebook is supposed to be strictly the same. Wait, I must have an old SR4 PDF english version.

Yep. same thing :

"Summoning
A magician may only summon the chosen spirits of her tradition (see Traditions, p. 169).[…]"

So, if the summoning restrictions do apply to the Summoning Test made on a just banished spirit, you just can't make this.
So now, the question is, why would these restrictions not apply ?
Please, help, because it'll make me a real pleasure to be able to take control of task spirits of a possession tradition with my shaman  ;D
Me am french, me am not speaking good english, but me am trying to correct this.

Machiavelli

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« Reply #9 on: <09-19-10/0329:00> »
I know that you can get access to spirits not of your tradition if the spirit becomes free of any reason (e.g. the mage it summoned drops dead or unconscious). If you banish a spirit, you simply reduce the wishes the mage had and if these wishes reach zero, he is free....and also free to get him pokestyle.^^ I don´t know where it is standing, but believe me that it works by RAW...and maybe GOD.^^

Magus

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« Reply #10 on: <09-19-10/1044:21> »
Hey AJ go over to the Home Page on SR4 and there is a link somewhere on there where you can send in questions. the address I think is info@shadorun.com  The Devs used to be pretty cool about answering questions through that as well.
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anotherJack

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« Reply #11 on: <09-19-10/1048:46> »
Already tried for another subject : http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=151.0
No answers until then.
But I'll try again, thanks

(By the way, if you have answers to the linked subject, I take. It points lacks about conditions of sustaining spells/powers, which would change a lot the gameplay with spirits powers and some others littles things.)
Me am french, me am not speaking good english, but me am trying to correct this.

Magus

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« Reply #12 on: <09-19-10/1052:26> »
What questions do you have on sustaining? Spirit Powers being Sustained or a Spirit sustaining a spell you have cast, or a spell that a Soirit cast with Innate Spell?
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anotherJack

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« Reply #13 on: <09-19-10/1059:58> »
Well… I found a chapter in street magic which clearly says that a spirit can materialize, use one of his physical powers on a target (in the example, it was "Guard"), but didn't have to stay materialized to sustain its power… so, it made me ask myself about a looooot of questions on powers sustaining (example : if a spirit can sustain a power from the astral space, can it sustain a power from its metaplane, while placed "standby" by its summoner, since metaplane are part of astral space ?), spells sustaining (can a magician do things like sustaining a spell cast while projecting when back to the physical plane ?), applications to the physical and astral body of the magician, with example if it's the caster of the spell/power which change of plane or if it's the target, and so, and so…
It does make a lot of questions, we found no clear answer in the rule, I think it would be better if you just take a look on the linked subject…
« Last Edit: <09-19-10/1101:41> by anotherJack »
Me am french, me am not speaking good english, but me am trying to correct this.

Magus

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« Reply #14 on: <09-19-10/1119:09> »
Ok I read the other thread and it is correct. Let me break it down for you.
 A spirit when in stand by mode is not able to sustain a Power/Spell from its home Metaplane, only when in the Astral Plane. (MetaPlanes are a part of the whole Astral Plane but separate due to the Dweller at the Threshold.)

There would really be no need to ever sustain a Mana Spell cast from the Astral Plane on another Astral Form as far as I can tell. Now if you cast a spell on your physical body (ie Increased Charisma) and sustain it it would carry over into the Astral and affect your Astral Form. While in your Astral Form while projecting you can sustain spells that you cast on the Physical Plane, as long as this was not an Area Effect spell you are sustaining ( as you must maintain LOS on the area you are sustaining the spell in).

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