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Shadowjack

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« on: <07-27-11/0450:36> »
Am I allowed to put armor on all of my cyberlimbs to get a ton of ballistic dice? I can't find any rule against it in the core book.
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Medicineman

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« Reply #1 on: <07-27-11/0528:49> »
Yes
but save some Capacities for other Gadgets (Attribute Up, hidden Comlink,Cybergyro,Fingercompartment,Fingercamera,Biomonitor,Nanite Hive,etc,etc).You'll regret it if You "cram Full" (is that the right Word?)all your Cyberarms/Legs only with Armor

Hough !
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KarmaInferno

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« Reply #2 on: <07-27-11/0533:46> »
Some GMs houserule that Armor is averaged across the body locations like Attributes are.

But by the strict rules, you can indeed stack up massive amounts of armor in SR4, cyberarmor being one of those contributing options.

However, consider this - high armor isn't the impenetrable ultimate defense it was in previous editions. It means you'll be taking a lot more stun damage one way or another. Additionally, if the GM decides to ramp up the opposition's firepower to match your uber-armor, your fellow runners might be hosed.

This isn't even counting the negative social reactions from other people in regards to your massive cyberarmor.



-k
« Last Edit: <07-27-11/0535:52> by KarmaInferno »

Shadowjack

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« Reply #3 on: <07-27-11/0552:20> »
I don't quite understand your comment about stun damage. Would you please clarify what you mean exactly? That is pretty cool that I can get lots of armor. I actually couldn't find many other enhancements that interested me other than hydraulic jacks and attributes. I'm also finding it a bit confusing to think about the attributes my cyber limbs would have. My idea is to play an elf with high agility but if I take cyber limbs it seems like I'm screwing myself. Also, I assume the starting 3 body your cyber limbs get only applies if you are hit on that limb specificly, right?

Also, if I have a body of 6 on a single cyber limb does that mean my character's body is effectively 6? It says in the 4e book something like "Mike is shot in a hall so he uses the average body rating of his cyber limbs". I also don't understand what the purpose of taking a cyber hand is instead of a cyber arm. Any help on this is greatly appreciated as I can't really resume making my character lol.

Am I allowed to take a gyro stabilization on both cyber arms to get 6 points of recoil compensation?

Another issue I'm having is I want to play an elf but it almost seems pointless because it looks like any race with a cyber hand can have 10 agility for firearms. And if I chose Troll would I be using the cyberarms body as my main body rating? I wish the 4e book was much more clear on all of this. Sorry for so many questions.
« Last Edit: <07-27-11/0621:27> by Shadowjack »
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Sengir

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« Reply #4 on: <07-27-11/0833:08> »
I don't quite understand your comment about stun damage. Would you please clarify what you mean exactly?
I guess he meant that shots don't bounce off your armor if the damage value is less than your Armor value, you still take stun damage (unless you manage to soak all of it).

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Another issue I'm having is I want to play an elf but it almost seems pointless because it looks like any race with a cyber hand can have 10 agility for firearms. And if I chose Troll would I be using the cyberarms body as my main body rating? I wish the 4e book was much more clear on all of this. Sorry for so many questions.
The description in the BBB is quite good IMO, but let me rephrase it a bit (this just applies to attributes, Armor is not an attribute and hence simply added, just like a helmet simply adds +2 Armor):
- normally, you use the average of the natural attributes and any cyber parts, rounded down.
- If an action specifically involves a certain limb, use the attributes of that limb
- If an requires involves the coordinated effort of multiple body parts, use the one with the weakest rating.

So for damage resistance, you mostly use the average of your natural Body and any enhanced limbs, since Shadowrun normally does not use hit locations. If damage specifically goes into a certain region for one reason or another, use the Body of that location. When running both legs are required, so you use the attributes of the weaker one.


Which of the three rules applies of course requires some eyeballing. For example, it can be discussed endlessly whether high Agility in the arms is enough for shooting, or whether the torso (and maybe legs) also should be factored in. My personal rule of thumb is that if the action is primarily done with a certain limb, I use the stats of that limb. If it is conceivable that one weak limb inhibits a strong link (like when doing precision work with both hands), I use the lower stat.

To get back to your example, shooting is done with the arms, so use the cyberarms' Agility. However, it involves the whole arm, so just an upgraded hand is not enough.

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I also don't understand what the purpose of taking a cyber hand is instead of a cyber arm. Any help on this is greatly appreciated as I can't really resume making my character lol.
Well, maybe somebody does not want/need to sacrifice his whole arm.

UmaroVI

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« Reply #5 on: <07-27-11/0927:28> »
Ahhh, cyberleprosy.

1) A huge number of characters would greatly benefit from getting 2 cyberhands and 2 cyberfeet with armor, or 2 cyber lower legs and 2 cyber forearms with armor. A lot of GMs consider this extra ripe gouda and will not be happy with you; the FAQ also 'suggests' not counting partial cyberlimb armor. Getting armor on full cyberlimbs is generally considered much less sketchy.

2) Another good thing you can do with cyberlimbs is get yourself a cyberarm and use one-handed weapons (like pistols) with it. "Leading an attack with a cyberarm" is explicitly mentioned as a time when you use only that arm's agility score, so this lets you have a low agility score on yourself, a high agility score on your cyberarm, and be pretty good at fighting. It's an excellent way for a character who isn't primarily focused on combat, like a hacker, to still have a solid way of being effective in a fight. How this works with cyber lower arms is unclear and will probably depend on your GM.

3) A good reason to get partial limbs rather than full limbs is if you DO have high stats. Partial limbs are only used when ONLY that body part is being used. Thus, you can (for example) get your offhand replaced with a Cyber Lower Arm and not worry about having 3 stats on it most of the time. So why do this? Well, there are other useful things you can put in cyberlimbs, such as Cyberarm Gyromounts, Nanohives, Foot Anchors, and of course Cyberskates.

Medicineman

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« Reply #6 on: <07-27-11/0932:16> »
a cyberhand could be used to geat a ....Cheapo Point of Armor or a  cheap alternative place for a Nanohive.

a Modular Cyberhand can be quite some Gimmick (like a Drone Hand or a Set of different Cyberhands for different occasions or modular Cyberfeet with detachable Skimmer Disk or Waterjets )
so how Do You Americans say ? YMMV ?!

with a german Dance
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« Last Edit: <07-27-11/0934:28> by Medicineman »
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Shadowjack

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« Reply #7 on: <07-27-11/1823:36> »
Thanks a lot guys, that was really helpful. I think I'll stick with elf and go with a cyber torso, 2 cyber legs and probably 2 cyber arms as well. I've always had a lot of interest in cyber limbs but never got to try it so I'm excited. Any more discussion on this is very welcome :)

Oops O forgot to as something hehe. What is the BBB? Also, What are some options to reduce stun damage intake?
« Last Edit: <07-27-11/1827:46> by Shadowjack »
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Shadowjack

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« Reply #8 on: <07-27-11/1846:26> »
I'm assuming a pain editor is the best for handling stun damage.
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Critias

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« Reply #9 on: <07-27-11/1913:24> »
"BBB" is the core SR4A rulebook.

Shadowjack

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« Reply #10 on: <07-27-11/1931:34> »
Oh, okay. I wonder why it's called BBB.

So if I have 2 cyber arms, 2 cyber legs and a cyber torso do I not really need to put up my character's body, strength and agility? Right now I have them all at 1 and it seems that my character will function very well like that.
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UmaroVI

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« Reply #11 on: <07-27-11/1949:42> »
Agility? Not unless you can figure out how to make an agility test involving ONLY your head.

Strength? See above.

Body? That one is more debatable, because you would resist, say, Toxins with you actual body, not your limbs (since they couldn't help you soak toxins). Probably the same for Mana- spells, maybe the same for Power-spells. That said it matters less.

I would talk to your GM because plenty of people do not run Cyberlimbs as written (also, the rules are VERY poorly written and explained).

Shadowjack

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« Reply #12 on: <07-27-11/2027:41> »
I agree. I found the cyber limb section to be quite poorly written an ambiguous while also leaving out many important details. I thought Augmentation might help but it didn't. It's kind of cool not having to raise my physical attributes(except reaction). Thanks for the info!
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CanRay

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« Reply #13 on: <07-27-11/2119:26> »
Oh, okay. I wonder why it's called BBB.
It stands for "Big Black Book", and is another in a long line of traditional TLA (Three Letter Acronyms.).
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« Reply #14 on: <07-27-11/2205:47> »
Oh, okay. I wonder why it's called BBB.
It stands for "Big Black Book", and is another in a long line of traditional TLA (Three Letter Acronyms.).

An abbreviation isn't an acronym unless it is pronounced as a word.

Example: PETA is an acronym, BBB is not.
« Last Edit: <07-27-11/2208:16> by Onion Man »
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