[CanRay]

Yeah, those of us who did it "Back in the day" now have other commitments we have to deal with (Such as families), and kids today just don't have the urge to do it because they didn't grow up with Dial-Up and got to enjoy the "Simplicity" of HTML Coding in MS-DOS EDIT. 

[Crimsondude]

Damn kids and their programs that do everything but wipe their asses for them.

Hand coding really is just better.

[CanRay]

*Waves my cane*  Bloody Skript Kiddies!  They're even in-game now!   

[Gleeful]

Until I read this, I'd forgotten all about the hours upon hours I spent rummaging through Shadowland and Blackjack's website. I remember crying laughing at some of the humor found there, and glaring angrily at some of the ideas, and debating rules on ShadowRN.

But as someone said earlier, one of the really NICE things about sites like Blackjacks, is that you could go BACK there, and reread that great idea/funny story, etc. Try doing that on Facebook or any forums. Even finding something on Google gets you mostly advertisements on how to put something on a tshirt.

But it's also that the younger generation uses their time differently. My kids are gamers, sure--but they are primarily either PC or console. I have to constantly yank their attention back to the game from texting, and heaven forbid if they have a laptop open.

Heck, they even roll their dice with phones now. My OWN group has folks doing it. I still like building forts with all my six-siders but I admit that yowch from a critical glitch is pretty cool. I guess back in the day there was just less distracting me from Shadowrun, whereas today I find myself tugged on 50 directions, and accomplish nothing.

[CanRay]

I miss Brumby the Troll Philosopher myself...

[John Schmidt]

Plethora = overabundance

I agree with Bull that forums are a poor substitute (if at all) for a fan website. Be it the inability to search a forum or the vitriol that seems prevalent (more with some sites than in others).

As far as nostalgia...the conversation was more about analyzing the impact of fan sites on the visibility of SR rather than lamenting the good ole days. I contend that there is a correlation between visibility (i.e. grass roots marketing) and the growth of a product line. There is something terribly compelling about a fan site, it speaks to their interest/passion for a particular topic (by virtue of the effort it takes to create and maintain one)...and it is most often the exact opposite of the slick packaging and marketing message we are bombarded with every day.

I don't feel any need to defend the content that various sites had as it is completely subjective in nature and is like arguing the merits of the color blue.

@ Onion Man: “Online sales have given way to community marketing (we the community are the product in most web based business models these days, we're not the client anymore).”
Pretty sure that Amazon.com would say that is not the case.

@ Mystic: "Honestly, what we have is what we have; why not try and keep it going instead of worrying about the way it was rather than what we can help it become?"
First off, I am not worried it was a topic I felt like sharing from an interesting conversation. Second, said topic is precisely about "keep it going" and perhaps improving the situation.

As for the 80's, that I am able to remember the 70's allows me to put things in very fine perspective for me. 

[Crimsondude]

That's the thing-I don't see fan sites for anything. I see forums up the ass and fb pages. It seems like people have no great of walking in and dropping grenades.

I don't know. I have the only thing approximating a GM advice site I know of and it varies the imprimatur of me being a freelancer, but no one seems to care. I'm not going to shut up there or on twitter (though I haven't said much there recently), but no one else seems to want to do it and the freelancers are too busy (myself excluded for reasons of not having a life like everyone else, which is how I can spend so much time here and elsewhere. Plus posting is easier, A LOT EASIER, than putting thought into a real site or real writing).

[Mystic]

@ Mystic: "Honestly, what we have is what we have; why not try and keep it going instead of worrying about the way it was rather than what we can help it become?"
First off, I am not worried it was a topic I felt like sharing from an interesting conversation. Second, said topic is precisely about "keep it going" and perhaps improving the situation.

Fair enough. My take on things, I admit tends to be somewhat jaded as from what I see in my little part of the world, things are stagnant. And this isn't just gaming, its pretty much everything. Industry in my area sucks, the economy sucks (where dosen't it though?), and well, overall things just suck. A sense of longing for what passed for the "good old days" has become a regional pastime and it seems to have become a quagmire of meloncholy with no one really doing anything other than longing for what was.

And unfortunately it seems to have infected a lot of the people I used to and still game with. I get people who want to keep playing the same damn things over and over with no real change and in the end no real fun. It's become almost a second job and a requirement rather than a way to have fun. Origins for me was a much needed breath of fresh air in so many ways and for so many things because I know not everyone out there is like this. The game is still fun and evolving and for that I am grateful.

And, for what good I can do, I DO want to keep it going.

[Psikerlord]

I've been playing SR on and off for nearly 20 yrs. Have to say I never used the old fan websites folks are referring to. They were too "unofficial" for our group. The forums here however are awesome. Great place to scan a few interesting threads, post queries of your own, etc. So I'm an example of someone who likes this setup better. It ain't all bad!

[John Schmidt]

I would not say that forums are harming SR. It seems to me that forums serve one function while fan pages another. Nor would I claim that you have to have one or the other, both should function within their respective roles without hindering the other.

@ Crimsondude: "Plus posting is easier, A LOT EASIER, than putting thought into a real site or real writing"
It is easier but is the payoff the same? Do you get as much gratification from a post as you do from writing something for print?
As for the twitter stuff and the fact that I am not contributing...I have to pick and choose my battles these days. However, as soon as I get the interviews edited and posted to YouTube I will post links on the forums. 

[Crimsondude]

Depends on the post, or whatever.

I only have one thing in one book that's in print. I consider my contributions to the masses on boards and tumblr and twitter and among the freelancers to have a much more significant impact just by sheer volume of work. If I stuck to one name, even after getting banned from DS I would easily be in the top three all-time posters. That's a HELL of a lot of posts. It's easier somehow to just discuss things that way for me, especially recently. It's a lot easier to edit and comment on my and other peoples' work sitting in a hospital room than it has to write material for publication even though I haven't had to go visit that hospital in three months now. As much as I can't wait to get my copy of Street Legends, I am more looking forward to being able to sell the ideas and potential that come from what's in that book to the others. I'm an ideas, guy, it turns out. That sucks compared to someone like Critias who can and does just plow through his writing. I'm not trying to diminish his ideas or work, but I'm much more comfortable throwing out ideas and trying to work with them. Being a dictator in print and saying "This is how it is" doesn't always suit me.

I get a much more immediate sense of pleasure helping someone out on a board, especially since the closest I've gotten from SG is "I need to figure out how to have my PCs run into a Ranger" in, like, Germany or Seattle or space. I can't recall where he said offhand.

[Bull]

The problem is Crimson, the board stuff is fleeting, as I mention.  There may be volumes of text you've written on the boards, but honestly, other than knowing you (Or FastJack, or CanRay, or Critias, or a half dozen other names that pop out at me) post frequently?  THere's nothing that has stood out and said to me "This is something that's important" or "this is helpful" or whatever.  ANd that's nothing against any of the stuff you guys have contributed here.  Everyone can likely say the same about me.  OUtside of general tone (Friendly, interesting, funny, smart, irritating, etc) and whether or not I consider the person a tool or not, message board posts are temporary, transient.  Fire and forget.  I look stuff over, but rarely do I remember any of it because it's a Message board post. 

That might just be my own nature, I admit.  Blogs/Journals are only a step above them.

I like the written word.  I love it.  I read volumes of material.  I have probably 50-75 books that I read and reread on a regular basis, and am always adding to that list.  Plus I'm always looking for new stuff to read.  I also love to write, as my chatty nature online tends to show.  But...  If I'm going to really pay attention to something, if I'm going to take something written and really utilize it, it has to be well organized, easy to find, well written, and most of all, "permanent" (or at least as permanent as the Internet gets).

As John says...  FOrums serve a purpose.  Websites serve another.  It's a shame that the latter have fallen by the wayside.  I may have to try again to do something about that, even if it's just in my own little corner of the Net.

Bull

[CanRay]

Might have to see what I have in my notes to dust off if you do, Bull.

[Crimsondude]

Well, I long ago gave up on permanence the first time I threw away a pile of notebooks and deleted folders worth of material. The Internet does forget, and there are no Resonance Realms IRL. I appreciate that a lot of the time.

[CanRay]

My notebooks got lost in the variety of moves I've made in the past six years.