[baronspam]

So, I was looking at the rules for Empathy software and emotitoys.  I know many people consider those rules somewhat broken, as they seem to offer huge dice pool bonuses (up to +6) for very little cost (3000 nuyen, plus a high end comlink to run it on).   Considering that tailored pheromones cost 45,000 for only a +3 to social test this does does seem remarkably out of balance.

A possilbe solution-  The rules say the bonus is to judge intention tests.  It then goes on to mention that the software can be used covertly during negotiations, etc.  But it doesn't directly say it can be used with other specific checks.  I am thinking that the intent of the rule is that it only covers judge intention tests, and that through bad writing they managed to use the names of several others skills when they were just trying to describe situations where the software could be used. 

So, my interpretation of this if I were gm would be to say emotion software is only good on judge intention tests.  You can use it during a negotion session or when trying to run a con, but it doesn't let you apply the bonus directly to those skills.  Rather, you can use it to judge intention, and perhaps gets a small bonus based on the result of that test.  Does this make sense, rather than just throwing the rule out entirely?

[baronspam]

I probably should have put this in rules and such.  Could a mod boot it over there? 

Thanks.

[Sichr]

The thing is, Ive only found r3 software listed, so I consider sensor software it to be capped at 3...but it is only my own feeeling maybe.
About the bonus...you need to have it linked to proper sensors, so its cost is a bit higher, but you are right, in comparsion to Tailored pheromones its still quite cheap. But using it just for Judge intentions is not the solution...well maybe rules wise, but not RP and how-does-it-work wise. Combined with Lie detector it should be very powerfull tool for negotiators, as the software is able to analyze whole spectrum of body language signals and interpret them to give user the upper hand in social interaction...I think bonuses are OK. Judging intentions is part of negotiation process, but to make roll for judging intentions and also for social skill would be wasting time...

[baronspam]

The thing is, Ive only found r3 software listed, so I consider sensor software it to be capped at 3...but it is only my own feeeling maybe.
About the bonus...you need to have it linked to proper sensors, so its cost is a bit higher, but you are right, in comparsion to Tailored pheromones its still quite cheap. But using it just for Judge intentions is not the solution...well maybe rules wise, but not RP and how-does-it-work wise. Combined with Lie detector it should be very powerfull tool for negotiators, as the software is able to analyze whole spectrum of body language signals and interpret them to give user the upper hand in social interaction...I think bonuses are OK. Judging intentions is part of negotiation process, but to make roll for judging intentions and also for social skill would be wasting time...

On the sensors bit- if you can run it through a emotitoy i would think pretty much any camera would work, including cybereyes that are subscribed to your comlink.  The main extra cost would be a high end comlink, but I find that I am likely to want one of those anyway to have good security in place.

My main problem with it is that the cost is so low that there is no reason that everyone above mook status will not have at least some on his comlink.  Mr. Johnson, the Police detective, the corporate executive, pretty much anyone who works with people and isn't just a meat puppet or a rent-a-cop will use it, at which point the bonuses will basically cancel each other out.  If the corps will pay more than this for skillwire programs for their workforce they certainly would pay for this for the guy at the gate to pick up on the people who are unusually nervous or who seem to be hiding something.  The cost would make it fairly ubiquitous, and its incredibly powerful if you can use it on all social tests. 

Maybe another solution would be to crank up the availablilty rating, that way its not to hard to get a dice or two, but really good software in this area is still cutting edge and hard to get?   Just a thought.  That way the face could drop a restricted gear quality on it and have a high rating, but the corp receptionist or security lt. could run it at 1 or 2.

[Sichr]

The thing is, Ive only found r3 software listed, so I consider sensor software it to be capped at 3...but it is only my own feeeling maybe.
About the bonus...you need to have it linked to proper sensors, so its cost is a bit higher, but you are right, in comparsion to Tailored pheromones its still quite cheap. But using it just for Judge intentions is not the solution...well maybe rules wise, but not RP and how-does-it-work wise. Combined with Lie detector it should be very powerfull tool for negotiators, as the software is able to analyze whole spectrum of body language signals and interpret them to give user the upper hand in social interaction...I think bonuses are OK. Judging intentions is part of negotiation process, but to make roll for judging intentions and also for social skill would be wasting time...

My main problem with it is that the cost is so low that there is no reason that everyone above mook status will not have at least some on his comlink.  Mr. Johnson, the Police detective, the corporate executive, pretty much anyone who works with people and isn't just a meat puppet or a rent-a-cop will use it, at which point the bonuses will basically cancel each other out. 

Good point. The thing is to not forget this on character or NPC creation. I saw it nowhere...not sure but even Face archetyp doesn`t have this...
More to this, I doubt this would be quite helpfull fo Con, when you hardly have a time to adjust your speech to some computer analysis...hm...dunno...Availability should fix that, or just cost multiplier (imho i cannot imagine that you will make such software restricted or ilegal...on what argument...It posess no threat/harm to anyone...)

[Tagz]

I solved this for my game by applying Cumulative Social Modifiers cap to it, SR4A p130.

There is some debate on this subject, mostly based around whether "Social Modifiers" encompasses only things listed on the chart and other specific things, or if it is more a general purpose use.  I support the latter argument.

It also makes more sense in realistic terms.  The software only provides information to the person performing the task.  It seems unrealistic to me that a Cha 1 Troll with 1 Etiquette will get the same benefit from that information as a Cha 7 Elf with 5 Etiquette.  These aren't skillsofts, they should not be directly changing the skill value if you ask me.

First thing you might think is that applying the limit only makes it useful for faces with already high dice pools and low pool characters get nearly no benefit.  Not really.  It still will cancel out negative modifiers even if the full rating cannot be positive.  A Troll with R6 talking to someone who is hostile to them (-3) would still have a net +3 from it, but capped at +2.  For lower skilled characters it would mostly server as a buffer against negative modifiers, and in my opinion if you're not regularly seeing some negative modifiers in social situations you're not playing in the Shadowrun world.

In the end I've found it reinforces the need to actually acquire the skill, still provides benefit (that is more in line with it's low cost), prevents cheese in character creation of buying less expensive software in place of skill, and is now not a necessary item for everyone to have at rating 6.


*edit*
Oh yeah, if you wanted to be a TOTAL Raw nut:

Arsenal p60
Sensor Software
"With the computing power available in 2070, there's a lot you can achieve when you hook up a dedicated sensor system to a tailored software package.  The following software is of particular use to shadowrunners."

It is in the crunch section, not the fluff after all.  Basically it would mean the camera isn't supposed to have any other function.
Also:

Empathy Software, first line:
"Empathy software is designed for use with standard video / trideo cameras, carefully analyzing the behavioral patterns of the subject to ascertain mood, interest, and so on."

This could rule out cyberware as well as a few others.

Anyhow, only relevant if you want to be a complete RAW Corebook thumper.

[Sichr]

There is another thread to this, and the consensus is that recording unit in the cybereye (standard equipement) is equal to standard camera...not mentioning the fact multiple sensors may be in use (thermographic, radar, visual/sound enhancements etc.)

I like the ide about capping this with the proper skill
maybe it should be, IMHO like Tacnet software, linked to the knowledge skill that allows you to understand/interpret/use the data from the sensor...this would work for me...
dont ask me about the numbres, just theoretical idea...