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Street Legends

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MikeW

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« Reply #75 on: <07-16-11/1231:45> »
Appreciate the kind words Frankie.  I hope you will enjoy what I've written for Street Legends as well (though none of my four sections were highlighted in the preview).

I was going to say that in favor of keeping things positive, I would suggest that people who don't see their favorite cannon character highlighted in Street Legends, to use this thread as an opportunity to express which characters they would like to see highlighted. Just because they aren't in this particular product, doesn't mean they can't be in future products down the road. There are a great many fascinating characters in Shadowrun that deserve the spotlight, and having a thread to list those characters would be helpful. Many of these characters span so many years and editions, that it is easy to only use the most memorable or the most recent characters.  And really, we need to be encouraged to dig deeper and explore SR's roots and its characters.
« Last Edit: <07-16-11/1234:48> by MikeW »
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CanRay

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« Reply #76 on: <07-16-11/1232:16> »
Would I love to see Argent, wolf, Ryan mercury, dirk, wolfgang, doc raven, ghost, and sally sung among many others stated up? Hell yes, but I feel the tone of the book is focused on current runners. I also see it mainly steering clear of messing with writers PC's as much as possible.

I know I have talked to R.A Salvatore and he stated he would love to do another wolf and raven novel. Possibly the ones that are omitted or added hint at future fiction in the works?
Yeah, the old crew.  Thing is, it's been decades since we've seen then, a lot of their work has been out of print for awhile now, so...  Yeah, they got to target the younger audience and the older folks whose memories can't get past...  ...  What was I saying?

Oh, and is R.A. Salvatore is writing for Michael A. Stackpole now?
Appreciate the kind words Frankie.  I hope you will enjoy what I've written for Street Legends as well (though none of my four sections were highlighted in the preview).

I was going to say that in favor of keeping things positive, I would suggest that people who don't see their favorite cannon character highlighted in Street Legends, to use this thread as an opportunity to express which characters they would like to see highlighted. Just because they aren't in this particular product, doesn't mean they can't be in future products down the road. There are a great many fascinating characters in Shadowrun that deserve the spotlight, and having a thread to list those characters would be helpful. Many of these characters span so many years and editions, that it is easy to only use the most memorable or the most recent characters.
More of these?  Well, I'll have to see this one before I whoop for joy, but this does give me a happy feeling.  ;D

Put me down for Argent and Dirk for sure, as well as Twist and Dodger.  I want to know how those folks have weathered the massive upheavals since we saw them last.

Dodger particularly!  I just hope he isn't in some dark basement writing crappy poetry and listening to non-stop JetBlack in a Emo-Fest due to losing his slightly insane and half-dissected AI Lover...
« Last Edit: <07-16-11/1235:37> by CanRay »
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #77 on: <07-16-11/1319:09> »
This book has characters I don't like (the dragons). It also has characters I really love. And yes there are a hundred other characters that are just as deserving to be in this book as the ones who made it. It's already been said how and why, and believe me if I had the time I'd have gladly worked on more than just Nadja Daviar. I introduced over forty to fifty new characters in Spy Games alone, and I'd love to have them all detailed and statted up in addition to the old fart runners like Argent and Dodger, whose entry would also include me killing off Ronin in a shadowtalk aside because fuck that dude, or Harlequin (whose writeup in this book would probably suffer by ... Something), Ryan Mercury, or someone like Lloyd Ritter whose entry could also cover Saito's fate—but whose background is only known in the pool to two ex-freelancers and myself (and maybe Critias). The fact that Ryan Mercury even gets named in this book is nothing short of a miracle considering everything I had to cram into my chapter, and when you see it you'll probably agree that yes he deserved his own entry, but I am comfortable in saying that I am the only one happy to do it because he and Daviar are literary dynamite. I am going to get slagged for her writeup, and would no matter what. But after all of the shit I've said about some of my predecessors and co-authors I am due.


Half a page badly formatted equipment list for a character?
You're looking at quite simply the most gear intensive page in the book, the equipment list for a high-end drone rigger, and a page so full of goodies that it got Jason to comment -- just about the amount of stuff in that one page -- about it over on the Shadowrun blog months ago.
This is exactly why I included it.

I knew that there was going to have to be at least one example stat block to show off how incredibly badass some of these characters' stats are, and since Jason had already commented on it I felt it appropriate to show it off.

This is same reason why of all of the short fiction pieces in the book I chose the opening to Parlor Tricks is because Jason and/or Randall had already commented publicly about how it has such an amazing opening line.

Considering Critias is my best friend and co-writer on the stories we did for SL, and considering that I am hardly above self-aggrandizing the fact that it was already being used to whet peoples' appetites is why I picked her story over the intro to ours (since part two is certain to really fucking piss off some people, and the third piece is the damn climax).

Here's an overview of what I did to build this.

Page 1: TOC. BTW, in the full PDF the chapter headings are hyperlinks. Bonus points to Matt for including those. I want the TOC because a) it's one page, and b) there are no surprises on who is or isn't in there.

Page 2. Credits. Because credit where credit is due.

Page 3. Intro. This goes back to when Mike M. was the line developer and they had started releasing previews of the book. I also wanted to include it because right there that one page sets out exactly where we stand. If you don't buy that, the next seven pages and the book are probably not something you're interested in.

Page 4. JackPoint. Yeah, I succumbed to the "this is how it's always done" mentality for that one. It's the JP login page, and were I to go back I'd cut it out.

Pages 5-6. Cayman. Page 6 is an amazing full-page illustration that deserves to be shown off (since Jason has already shown off Hestaby, Puck, and ... someone else I forget offhand). It is in fact my favorite piece in the book. Going back, Page 5 shows you exactly how these things are going to begin, and besides that Cayman has a great introduction to the book.

Pages 7-8. Parlor Tricks. See above.

Page 9. Rigger X stat sheet. See above.

Page 10. Bull. I wanted someone from each grouping, and that seemed the most appropriate page. Plus Bull looks like a damn pimp in that image. My second favorite after Cayman.

Page 11. Villiers/Lanier. Group three.

I wanted to keep this to ten pages or less, and I think I put a decent amount of thought into the layout aesthetic of the sample to convey exactly what readers should expect from the entirety of the book. What you see in the sample is, expanded to 180 or so pages exactly what you'll get from the full book.
« Last Edit: <07-16-11/1346:37> by Crimsondude »

CanRay

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« Reply #78 on: <07-16-11/1405:49> »
Bull looks bad ass in art and from the pics I've seen of him.  He's very much a very typical Ork without even Goblinizing!  Wish I was going to GenCon.

Anyhow, one complaint about a character, and the OMG WALL OF TEXT EQUIPMENT are hardly reasons to bad mouth what could be an excellent product.  It certainly appears to be shaping up for that.  It's on my PDF Purchase list certainly.

As for the "If It's Statted, We Can Kill It".  Well, this isn't "Deities and Demigods".  It's not like we're getting stats for Thor and have PCs gearing up to go kick the Thunder God's hoop from here to Valhalla.  It's a bunch of mortal characters in a game universe where MAIN CHARACTERS HAVE DIED!  Wedge?  Ricky Ratboy?  Hatchetman (Oh dear $Deity, HATCHETMAN!)?  Even Captain Chaos who in any other written work would have lived forever!  FastJack has a in-universe reason for his long life being that he's lived a long time in a really dangerous job.  Think on that.  (If you can't figure it out, read about Cohen the Barbarian and his Silver Horde.  And what they did *AFTER* they died!).

There's also the little matter that he's an enigmatic character that no one has even seen in decades, which reduces the life threatening events to him by quite a bit (Except for when he's on the Matrix, but, well, he literally wrote the book on Matrix Combat, knows it cover-to-cover, and is more than willing to break the rules in order to win no matter what.).

So, yeah, wait and see.
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #79 on: <07-16-11/1416:16> »
To be clear: Just because they have stats does not mean that you can kill them. The one thing SR4 has going for it is that its stupid caps don't apply to magic.

The more I think about him, the more I don't give a flying fuck about FastJack. He was already semi-retired in his Target:Matrix writeup, and that was ten years ago in-game. If I did anything with him, it would probably force him out of the Matrix (which would also determine once and for all if he is the buffed-out, Leonized gentleman celebrating his 72nd birthday on page 82 of Augmentation) and because I'd be doing something new and putting him out into the world for the first time since the Second Edition core book which would automatically piss people off.

Oh, funny story. Patrick Goodman called me last night to talk about Shadowrun. He foolishly asked "Can you even name someone from Prime Runners?" aside from de Vries. And then he remembered who he asked. :D

As I recall offhand, Mueller appears in SoE. The hoodlum priest is killed off in Feral Cities. Rhonabwy is still Rhonabwy. Jonty is the leader of a Winternight cell. Teachdaire is going insane. De Vries ... is in SL. Kaminsky appears in SOE and Augmentation. Suki is a simstar in SSG/SOTA/Street Magic. Sutherland was in a bunch of novels. Gates is mentioned in Seattle 2072. Still, that book is the prime example of wasted potential in SR.
« Last Edit: <07-16-11/1425:06> by Crimsondude »

Patrick Goodman

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« Reply #80 on: <07-16-11/1432:52> »
Yeah, I was drinking deeply from the cup of, 'What the hell were you thinking?" that time....
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #81 on: <07-16-11/1520:23> »
You were also rather distracted as I recall.

Nebular

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« Reply #82 on: <07-16-11/1708:10> »
Interesting preview, but I won't be grabbing this. If this offered more than just "here are some NPCs that are better than everyone else", like in-depth NPC creation discussions (such as the NPC sections of the Elder Evils and DMG II books for D&D 3.5), I think the book would be much more useful. As it is, I just don't see the need, much like the page-long epic NPC write-ups from the Forgotten Realms books in D&D 3.5. Yes, there are really powerful characters out there with a lot of accomplishments, but the game should focus on the players and the things they're doing, not the things that other characters the players will never meet have done. Characters might hear about them in passing, but they shouldn't be living in the shadows of other NPCs and constantly hearing about why they're better than you and how they could kick your collective butts before you even pulled the trigger.
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Critias

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« Reply #83 on: <07-16-11/1722:12> »
Yes, there are really powerful characters out there with a lot of accomplishments, but the game should focus on the players and the things they're doing, not the things that other characters the players will never meet have done.
One of the reasons we're statting everyone up is so that they CAN be included in a game.  Player characters can meet them, now, and interact with them in a meaningful fashion (as allies or enemies), and shoot them square in the fucking face if they feel like it.

I'm gonna be contrary to Crimson's earlier post, just a bit, here;  these guys can be killed.  Some of them won't go easy, but none of them are unstoppable.  If your PCs play it smart and have the skills and gear, you, as a GM, know just how tough Lofwyr is, now, or Lugh Surehand, or whomever.  What's more, many of these characters are specialists (in as much as anyone who's made it in "the business" for very long is still a specialist) -- catch Rigger X without his toys, or Bull in the meat instead of the matrix, and your odds go way up.

If you're just not interested, you're just not interested, and (of course) that's totally fine.  But I don't want folks to think this is just a "ZOMG LOOK HOW AWESOME THEY ARE" book of Elminsters and Drizzt Do'Urdens or something.  "Character" is still one of the words in "non player character," and these NPCs are just fodder for your game.  If including them makes your campaign more awesome and gives your PCs the chance to have a richer story, so be it.  But it'll always be the GM and the PCs that make the game, not the NPCs, and we writers are well aware of that.

CanRay

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« Reply #84 on: <07-16-11/1736:53> »
Here's a hint:  Don't shoot Bull in the face, it'll improve his looks and slot him off.  A lot.  ;D
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #85 on: <07-16-11/1745:28> »
There is also the matter that what some of these characters are doing is significantly affecting the metaplot. You may not meet them directly (though there is no reason why you couldn't. We made sure of that), but their presence is noticeable.
« Last Edit: <07-16-11/1749:14> by Crimsondude »

CanRay

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« Reply #86 on: <07-16-11/1750:37> »
Breaking the Universe, bad idea.
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Frankie the Fomori

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« Reply #87 on: <07-16-11/1833:35> »
I like it because it gives a base line for Different PC archetypes. There maybe things these PC's do with equipment and skill I have not thought off (most assured there is). As a GM I know what certain base line Prime runners look like, I know what type and quality of gear is reasonable with a given background.

But most important of all it lets us see another side of the universe. I have the chance to see what these NPC's look like, what type of stories they have, another view of the streets/ corps they grow up in. This last bit is priceless for me; i never mind what goes on with my PC, as long as the story is being told. This gives that story more chances to be told in depth!

Crimsondude

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« Reply #88 on: <07-16-11/1842:00> »
We must burn down the forest to save it!

CanRay

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« Reply #89 on: <07-16-11/2017:06> »
We must burn down the forest to save it!
Funny enough (Sorry, comment made me think of this), my latest DTF notebook that I got is actually not tree pulp, but sugar cane waste.  More renewable and just as good quality.  Not as good as hemp paper, but a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.

I just wish I knew where they manufactured it or got the raw materials...

Back on topic:  "We’ve all been there, in that place where we hate everybody. Where we think that people who don’t need people are the luckiest goddamned people in the whole goddamned world." - FastJack.

I live in that frame of mind at times.  Sometimes I'm amazed that I'm as sociable as I am...  It certainly sets things up for the book that's making me like it more and more...
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