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Street Legends

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Crimsondude

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« Reply #45 on: (02:40:57/06-30-11) »
and everyone wants them to be special—that's just something inherent to every writer.
Correction: inherent to every writer, player, gamemaster, wargamer, etc., etc.
Considering my virtual to tabletop gaming is at a ratio of man years:hours, I have this habit of treating gaming as a writing exercise.

So simply because a grand master foo steps up to the plate, the bullseye is magically moved 200 yards back while keeping everything else equal?
I think it's more like the Kai Lords gamebooks.

In the later ones, they didn't even bother with the thief attacks in the city, they just comment that you left a few bodies of idiots behind you as you moved through the rough parts of town.

The Grand Master Foo deals with the bigger issues.
So the problem would mostly be that of mixing people of very different ability? Hmm, i can see that.
Something like that.

I hate, hate, HATE GMs who complain that they cannot challenge powerful PCs (or God forbid, Legendary NPCs). That has happened to me NEVER, and I assure you I have I dealt with Shadowrun PCs who can only be described as Godlike (well, demigodlike anyway). Everything in gaming, as in life, is a matter of context. I am not going to throw a PC who kidnapped Nadja Daviar into a gang fight. First, he's going to win if Initiative gets rolled, but more importantly he did not get to be that good by being stupid. When an elf and a human are trekking through a besieged Ork Underground to get into the SCIRE and some newb troll gives them shit for being either crazy or stupid smoothies (or both), the human put him in his place by saying the magic words: They worked with a bigtime OU runner inside the SCIRE when Deus controlled it, and the troll ... Didn't. The other trolls and orks just shut up. Problem solved.


So simply because a grand master foo steps up to the plate, the bullseye is magically moved 200 yards back while keeping everything else equal?
No. He cake walks it and then goes on to do something interesting. I don't mean moving the goalposts in the middle of the game. That's just stupid. I mean that a starting PC and a PC with 5,000 karma should not be looking at challenges in any way that is remotely related. The starting PC is battling for their life. The uber-PC flies in at Mach n and kills everyone before fighting a foe whose Divining skill is so high that the uber-PC is burning karma pool like mad rerolling to avoid, oh say, a hideously booby-trapped jungle while dodging missiles from three helo gunships that were all sent because the villain is in the PC's class, and therefore an actual challenge, having known exactly when the PC will be where and what they will do.

I like the idea of progress. I like the idea of limitless potential. I hate that you can be the best in the world at chargen ... Just like 10,000 other people.
« Last Edit: (03:00:53/06-30-11) by Crimsondude »

CanRay

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« Reply #46 on: (02:55:41/06-30-11) »
Thus me liking my "Accountant From Hell" build.  A nice, average, ordinary person, especially with his backstory.  Too bad it's so hard to play him properly (I'm just too emotional.), so I might just have to relegate him to writing.  I might have to go more with Pup the Dog Shaman, as he's closer to my own personality to play properly.  (The character with you in mind also has to be taken into consideration.).  If I ever get to play, that is.

Then again, my own "Marty Sue" character might be a bit of a guilty pleasure.  Even if he isn't good at everything, and is more than a little insane (Having your wife's skull take out your eyes and face, then having a building drop on you will do that to you), he does have a tendency to have a bit of everything ready (Of course, I've put, um, five years of work into his entire backstory, 20-years of which is in the Shadows.).

*Shakes Head*  This book can't come out soon enough, although I might just get the PDF.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Crimsondude

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« Reply #47 on: (03:05:52/06-30-11) »
...

Magic is a Hell of a force multiplier in SR4 with enough karma.

CanRay

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« Reply #48 on: (03:08:37/06-30-11) »
Yeah, point.  My "Marty Sue" isn't magical at all, and doesn't know much about magic (Although more than the average person.  That's what is shown on Karl Kombatmage, however, so...).

Speaking of Magic, my favorite Mage from the novels is in Street Legends, and I got to see his artwork!   ;D
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Charybdis

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« Reply #49 on: (22:23:08/06-30-11) »
...

Magic is a Hell of a force multiplier in SR4 with enough karma.

Yeah, but (5x Rating) is a pretty huge karma requirement....

Disturbs me greatly when I see the stats for some unnamed corporate mage opposition with Magic at 10.
Means you're facing an NPC who has spent:
- 170 Karma raising magic from 6-10
- 70 Karma on Initiation to Grade 4
= 240 Karma, at minimum

Isn't 250 Karma 'Prime Runner' status?
'Too much is never enough'

Current PC: Free Spirit (Norse Shamanic)
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Crimsondude

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« Reply #50 on: (01:46:42/07-01-11) »
We've had that discussion.

Charybdis

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« Reply #51 on: (00:06:54/07-04-11) »
We've had that discussion.
Apologies.... I must have missed it :(
'Too much is never enough'

Current PC: Free Spirit (Norse Shamanic)
'Names are irrelevant. Which fake ID do you want me to quote from?'

Phreak Commandment V:
If Thou Be In School, Strive To Get Thine Self Good Grades, For The Authorities Well Know That Scholars Never Break The Law

Crimsondude

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« Reply #52 on: (02:56:16/07-04-11) »
I meant among the freelancers.

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #53 on: (08:01:35/07-04-11) »
So the problem would mostly be that of mixing people of very different ability? Hmm, i can see that.

This is why writing for "living" campaigns like Shadowrun Missions is sometimes such a pain in the ass.

You have to write without knowing if the characters are going to be 100 karma pros or 0 karma newbies, or indeed whether you'll have a mixed table of varying power levels.

And as such you have to write somehow so the high-power characters can be challenged without the lower powered ones being just crushed.



-k

Patrick Goodman

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« Reply #54 on: (09:56:19/07-04-11) »
This is why writing for "living" campaigns like Shadowrun Missions is sometimes such a pain in the ass.

You have to write without knowing if the characters are going to be 100 karma pros or 0 karma newbies, or indeed whether you'll have a mixed table of varying power levels.

And as such you have to write somehow so the high-power characters can be challenged without the lower powered ones being just crushed.
And this was one of the (relatively minor) reasons I never wrote for Missions (sorry, Bull). We'll leave out that, in general, I suck at writing adventures, but writing them for targets I can't even see? Nah. I got enough shit going on in my life.

Maybe when my real life allows me to return to freelancing....
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Bull

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« Reply #55 on: (01:09:59/07-05-11) »
Sokay Patrick.

Here's the real problem with Shadowrun...  Karma totals don't really matter.  You can have a killer build as a 0 Karma Newbie throwing 20+ dice for his core tests if you've massaged your points right, and you can have a very well-rounded, but unspectacular 200 Karma veteran that throws 12ish dice on most tests if you don't focus all your karma into one place.

Plus you never know what the group mix will be.  You could have a team of social adepts, 6 hackers, or 6 complete combat monsters, with no other skills to work with.

So my outlook is...  Don't worry about it.  Really.

I simply try to write (and have my guys write) a basic, balanced adventure.  I try to make sure there are multiple ways to handle the adventure, so that any mix of characters can get from Point A to Point F successfully (They may have to occasionally think, but they can do it).  And I try to write decent, balanced NPCS.

But at the end of the day, and this is in the Boiler PLate text at the beginning of every Mission...  I put my trust in the GM to modify things as needed.  If the group is particularly magic heavy, add some magic and counter magic.  If they're combat intensive and just ripping through the bad guys, GMs are encouraged to beef up security.  If players are not being challenged, espeically if they're finding the game a bit boring, it's up to the Gamemaster to add that challenge. 

We try and provide some ideas to help GMs along, but at the end of the day, you cannot write for every circumstance and every group make up.  So I don't try.  I cover the bases, and then trust in my GMs to do their job. 

And at the end of the day, if everyone's having fun...  Well that's the point.  And hopefully we succeed at that.

Bull

hobgoblin

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« Reply #56 on: (16:12:27/07-15-11) »
Want to see my flash new jacket?

CanRay

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« Reply #57 on: (20:51:36/07-15-11) »
OK, most of the characters look good, pity about no Argent or Dirk.  Hey, Bull, sweet!

Wait...

What?

Kellan Colt?  I thought we were forgetting those years?
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Critias

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« Reply #58 on: (21:05:23/07-15-11) »
Kellan Colt?  I thought we were forgetting those years?
Much as some of us as individuals might want to, as a company there's no denying that she was the focal point of a whole trilogy by her lonesome self, pretty much.  *shrugs*  One little "nod" to that series (and the action figure line, in a way) shouldn't be enough to sour a whole book. 

Crimsondude

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« Reply #59 on: (21:12:07/07-15-11) »
Yeah, well.


Heh. If you told me in 2005 my name would appear in a SR book next to Steve Kenson's, I'd have called you a goddamn liar.