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Building from scratch

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nojosecool

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« on: (07:16:47/06-02-11) »
In Missions, is building things from scratch as described on pg. 134 in SR4A allowed?  It seems like allowing it would be problematic since there are no set difficulties for most kinds of gear.  Specifically, I'm thinking about trying to build cyberware.

I believe that in game, it's up to the GM to determine the threshold of the extended test, and it always costs half the item's base cost in parts.  I'm having trouble finding a reference for this.  I found specific references for commlinks, so that seems like it would be easy enough, but the a lot of rest looks like it leaves too much for GM interpretation to be allowed in Missions.  Any thoughts on this?
This is not Grand Theft Auto, this is Shadowrun.

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #1 on: (08:43:32/06-03-11) »
Quote from: SR4A page 138
Using Technical Skills to Build or Repair
Using a skill to build or repair something is an Extended Test with a threshold and interval based on the type of item being manufactured or fixed, as noted on the Build/Repair Table. Apply any appropriate modifiers from the table as well.
Note that “build” means putting together a new item/device from scratch, assuming that the component parts are on hand. Technical skills do not allow a character to create a new item/device from concept alone—that requires something along the lines of an engineering background and lots of collaborative effort.

I'd say that this falls firmly in the "GM must make up a whole new set of rules to cover it" and as such isn't really appropriate for Missions.



-k

nojosecool

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« Reply #2 on: (09:24:37/06-03-11) »
Thanks K, that's what I figured.  I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some rule buried deep in Arsenal or something.

-Joe
This is not Grand Theft Auto, this is Shadowrun.

wylie

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« Reply #3 on: (17:29:33/06-03-11) »
I also think most things the time frame would be outside of the time limit of a missions

if the party is in trouble, and need to go A-Team, well  I hope  i am not that GM who needs to create a set of rules real fast because the players have either gone way out of the park, or really messed up


Bull

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« Reply #4 on: (18:05:03/06-03-11) »
It will be more clear in a future FAQ, and I'll specifically list Programs this time around, since it wasn't entirely clear last time.  But basically, any sort of item creation is supposed to be outside of the Missions parameters. 

The main reason is that for 99% of the players, cost is one of the major balancing factors behind equipment.  There's also currently no real restriction on down time for runners, now is there any requirements for a minimum lifestyle.  This is deliberate, because no matter what limit we set on these things, there will always be a legitimate reason why Player X needs an extra week available for something.

In a home game, when runners want to take a lot of downtime, the GM can step in.  Plots keep moving, story keeps churning.  Things come up that can interrupt a lengthy downtime session.  Maybe the GM turns item creation into part of the ongoing plot.  Whatever, there are ways beyond simple time and money taht the GM can use to "Balance" out one character simply creating some/all of his core equipment.  In Missions, you don't have that.  And as the more, umm, creative members of the boards have shown in the past, it's all too easy to cheese out a lifestyle that requires very little money so that you can spend years doing things like programming max rating stuff.

Short answer:  No, you can't build from scratch.  There aren't enough rules to cover it, the rules that are there are often lacking, and there's just no way to put any real controls on it to make it fair in comparison to other players.

Bull

Wasabi

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« Reply #5 on: (00:14:38/06-04-11) »
For flavor's sake could there be a 'build from scratch' rule that it costs the parts and assembly take the same time and dicerolls as buying it new? That way folks can still truthfully RP they made their own drone, coded their own program, etc., without any mechanical benefit.
Missions Characters:
[SR4] Jax - Merc Technomancer
[SR5] Reece - Journalist TM

Bull

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« Reply #6 on: (08:01:08/06-04-11) »
Don't really need a rule for that, IMO...  Just say you do it that way. Net effect is the same, which is all that counts.  But yeam, I could throw a line to that effect in the next FAQ, I suppose.