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Carbines and SMG's

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KarmaInferno

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« Reply #45 on: (15:19:20/05-26-11) »
Quote
You're going to get personal opinions

Oh I get that. But if you're going to say something that has no basis in things like facts or logic, I don't feel bad for pointing it out. His mention of balance was a good one, albeit inacurrate on the game writer's part. Trying to insist that an SMG and carbine are the same thing is stupid.

Real Life facts and logic.

Again, he's not talking Real Life.

As far as Shadowrun is concerned, they're smaller than assault rifles but bigger than machine pistols, and they autofire. Given that Shadowrun has few degrees of granularity, they decided to lump anything under that definition as "SMG". Remember in this game there's no real distinction at all between pistol ammo and rifle ammo, nor calibers for either.

No, it's not "Real Life", but for game purposes it's "Good Enough".


-k
« Last Edit: (15:20:59/05-26-11) by KarmaInferno »

Mäx

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« Reply #46 on: (15:35:16/05-26-11) »
Trying to insist that an SMG and carbine are the same thing is stupid.
Funny think is that no matter how many times you repeat this, it doesn't make it true.
Not once did i say SMG and carbine are a same think in real world, just that for the point i was making about balance in a game they are the same think.
IRL being able to get an SBR thats's same size as MP5 and shoots 7.62 NATO rounds is cool, but having somethink like that in a game makes SMG:s pointless and truth be told also pretty much AR:s and other BR:s too.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

JoeNapalm

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« Reply #47 on: (16:23:19/05-26-11) »
You can get that in game, if you mod it.

 (But I grok what you are saying.)

-T-

CanRay

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« Reply #48 on: (18:24:17/05-26-11) »
Well, the AKS-74U (in 5.45mm Soviet) is almost SMG Sized.  The Heckler & Koch HK53 (in 5.56mm NATO) is the Western version as well, and H&K officially listed it as a "SMG" themselves.

Just to give to RL examples.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Cass100199

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« Reply #49 on: (02:09:32/05-27-11) »
http://world.guns.ru/assault/de/hk-hk33-and-hk53-e.html

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HK53 is a ultra-compact version of HK33, which advertised by HK as "submachine gun" and, by common sense, falls in the same category as soviet AKS-74U or Colt "Commando". All these guns can be classified as "compact (or short) assault rifles" by the fact, that they are used the intermediate rifle round.

Look, bottom line is that SMG's and Carbine's are two different things. If a difference is going to be made in light and heavy pistols, then they should have applied the same level of detail to the rest. And while "balance" may have been a rationale, it's a rationale not based in any kind of fact.

For example: If one of our homegrown (in the States) militias buy up a bunch of SR16's, or AMC's, or plain ol' Colt M4's and decides attack a protective detail armed with HK MP5's. Is that a fair fight? One is firing 5.56 NATO rounds and the other is firing 9mm. Not the same thing.

You can't tell me what toys I can play with.

CanRay

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« Reply #50 on: (04:41:00/05-27-11) »
"If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'", right?
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Mäx

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« Reply #51 on: (05:44:11/05-27-11) »
Look, bottom line is that SMG's and Carbine's are two different things. If a difference is going to be made in light and heavy pistols, then they should have applied the same level of detail to the rest. And while "balance" may have been a rationale, it's a rationale not based in any kind of fact.
When is balance ever based on facts, it's not like all SMG:s actually are just as powerfull or all AR:s for that matter, but the system only really has room for one stat line per group and as carbines can't be grouped with AR:s they got grouped in with the group below AR:s the SMG:s.

Ofcource if you don't like that you could just remove all the carbines and then when you want to get one for a character, just get an AR and apply the shortened barrel mod to it.

Also it's kinda funny that your insistant about the difference between carbines and SMG:S, while simultaniously quoting a source stating that HK advertises carbine version of one of their AR:S as an SMG. 8)
"An it harm none, do what you will"

FastJack

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« Reply #52 on: (07:49:22/05-27-11) »
Okay, the argument is going round and round again. I think everything needed to have been said has been, so time to lock the thread.