NEWS

Legal Items, Availability & The capitalist system

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Cass100199

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« Reply #45 on: <05-15-11/1202:25> »
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really the only reason you can't buy MP5 or G36

Factually untrue. I know more than few people with FFL's and an MP5. And the G36 can be bought by buying the Sl8 and then purchasing a .223/ 5.56 conversion kit. Presto, chango, you now have a G36. Holy Jeebus does anyone actually do research around here? This took me more time to write than actually search for the answer.

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No thats not it in the least, the problem was you changing caeless ammo into top of the line gear without mentioning it and then basing your comment to that change, when the rest of us are basing our answers to the following line from the gear section.

I'm pretty positive I made one, maybe two replies, before stating that it was in my game. Everything else has been due to people, much like you, making ignorant comments about firearms trying to prove me wrong. But, the facts do not support said assertions. I am right. In todays world, many of the "cool kid" guns are available, yet highly restricted and very expensive. A brand new criminal, starting his criminal career is not going to have the several grand to toss around buying the cool kid toys. That makes no sense. So if you want to continue this, you are welcome to PM me, but the fact is you are wrong, you apparently have no clue about firearms or what your talking about, and would prefer not to continue a conversation with people who cannot do a modicum of research.
« Last Edit: <05-15-11/1215:07> by Cass100199 »
You can't tell me what toys I can play with.

Medicineman

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« Reply #46 on: <05-15-11/1252:45> »
A brand new criminal, starting his criminal career is not going to have the several grand to toss around buying the cool kid toys.
With RAW he can have up to 250 (or with a little tweaking 300)  Grand  for his ...Cool Kid Toys.
(Or if You play SR3 or use a converted Char Up to 1 MIO ¥ for said Toys)
There are a lot of different Ways to play SR not only Yours and I have to agree (no ,I like to agree :) ) with the others. If You use Houserules, please announce them before You post them as Your "reality" as it helps prevent confusion !

Hough !
Medicineman
« Last Edit: <05-15-11/1255:33> by Medicineman »
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Rockopolis

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« Reply #47 on: <05-15-11/1254:26> »
Urgh, ninja posters!
Yeah, I find that one sometimes throws me for a loop too.  A 400BP 'runner is apparently supposed to have a couple runs under their belt, plus whatever background they had.
Entry level runners are probably more like the Professional Rating 1 mooks, apparently.  Just be sure to have several spares. :P
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Cass100199

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« Reply #48 on: <05-15-11/1327:44> »
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please announce them before You post them as Your "reality" as it helps prevent confusion

Please stop using this as a crutch. I made exactly two posts, only one having to do with caseless ammo, before stating it was my game. The "offending" comment was  nothing dramatic. So stop being drama queens. Sticking to that to justify nonsense assumptions is silly. Once again, fact is you're wrong*. Suck it up. Such is life.

*I said you could PM me if you wanted to continue. So, if you don't, I'll just be not nice.
« Last Edit: <05-15-11/1338:48> by Cass100199 »
You can't tell me what toys I can play with.

FastJack

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« Reply #49 on: <05-15-11/1351:03> »
All right guys, Mod Time. Back to your separate corners.

Cass, I think we addressed why people got upset. Yes, your opinion is valid and how you run your game is your own business. The reason for people getting upset is because the OP was asking a question about availability, not how everyone handles Caseless ammo in their games.

Mäx, Karma & others. Point has been made, time to let the issue go and get this thread back on topic. If we can't do that, we'll have to lock the thread.

savaze

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« Reply #50 on: <05-15-11/1403:47> »
Factually untrue. I know more than few people with FFL's and an MP5. And the G36 can be bought by buying the Sl8 and then purchasing a .223/ 5.56 conversion kit. Presto, chango, you now have a G36. Holy Jeebus does anyone actually do research around here? This took me more time to write than actually search for the answer.
You are right you can buy most weapons, depending on certain legality issues where ever you live. With H&K they don't like civilians buying their weapons and for a long time you couldn't get them. But eventually a few slipped out and now they are marketing to non-military/police, and they try to restrict who gets their weapons with a crazy mark-up. They wouldn't have been able to sell any of their stuff in the US, due to the whole GCA68 issue, but they started making the weapons locally so they are available. There are still weapons where I live (AZ) that I just can't get without breaking some serious laws, and I live in one of the most firearms enabled states in the country.

Err umm I'll take it down if you like FJ... My posted seemed to stall out while I was in the rest room so you seemed to post before me.
« Last Edit: <05-15-11/1406:18> by savaze »

Cass100199

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« Reply #51 on: <05-15-11/1457:18> »
The mark up is for the HK and brand name. HK North America couldn't get the 556 out to the civilian market fast enough. And as mentioned earlier, the USP .45 (easily the favorite of military/ paramilitary use) has been on the market for a while. It's the same difference between buying a Taurus or a Colt revolver. Both work great. Both are reliable and well made. But you'll pay more for the Colt stamp on the side. Same with Sig, Kimber, Springfield, etc. You're paying for a legacy of well made firearms.

If you have an FFL, you can get just about damn near anything you want. You can modify weapons. You can ship modified weapons. But you don't need an FFL to buy HK's civilian weapons. All you need is someone to have it shipped to. You may have availability issues, but I don't see any legal issues that would arise from owning HK's weapons. The biggest issue with owning H&K is the markup for brand name, yet they don't perform any better than some of the cheaper brands. But, aesthetically, they are hard to beat.
You can't tell me what toys I can play with.

Rockopolis

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« Reply #52 on: <05-15-11/1537:55> »
So they come standard with the Custom Look modification?
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savaze

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« Reply #53 on: <05-15-11/1712:10> »
The mark up is for the HK and brand name. HK North America couldn't get the 556 out to the civilian market fast enough. And as mentioned earlier, the USP .45 (easily the favorite of military/ paramilitary use) has been on the market for a while. It's the same difference between buying a Taurus or a Colt revolver. Both work great. Both are reliable and well made. But you'll pay more for the Colt stamp on the side. Same with Sig, Kimber, Springfield, etc. You're paying for a legacy of well made firearms.

If you have an FFL, you can get just about damn near anything you want. You can modify weapons. You can ship modified weapons. But you don't need an FFL to buy HK's civilian weapons. All you need is someone to have it shipped to. You may have availability issues, but I don't see any legal issues that would arise from owning HK's weapons. The biggest issue with owning H&K is the markup for brand name, yet they don't perform any better than some of the cheaper brands. But, aesthetically, they are hard to beat.
I'm not sure where you're getting the info about the USP being the favorite of military and paramilitary groups, but in the US that's far from true, it's a reliable gun for sure, but that's the only place it shines. The real truth is that H&K has an awesome marketing dept, but they don't climb ahead of anyone else, they're known more for doing their own things whether gun users like it or not (I think that has more to do with how they got started). I'm not trying to slam ya, if your an hk fan, but I can find a weapon at the same or less price point that will outperform it and still be a 'legacy' name brand. Politics and marketing are big influences on what people consider good weapons, but it truly comes down to getting your hands on it and putting the rounds through it. Politics has put Colt and Beretta into military contract when they were never the best. That whole lowest bidder at the time of selection is what determines it and then is changed after the initial purchase, to above market value (the M16/M4 the US is now using aren't even made by Colt anymore but we're still paying that price, some still have the logo but that has more to do with the armorers than anything else). If you've developed the "muscle memory" (I hate using that term, but nobody knows what I'm talking about when I say myelination, I guess Hollywood's to blame for that) with one system then stick with it.

Getting a Class III FFL might cause you more problems than you want if you're not also selling the weapons you're buying (fraud/tax evasion), even then you have to pay to keep it upkept and then apply for the proper paperwork when you quit keeping the FFL current. You're better off just getting the Class C Permit, or whatever it is now, for each weapon from BATFE. There are weapons that you still can't get in the US. The Neostead shotgun is one that most people will recognize and caused a big interest when it came out, but it couldn't/can't clear BATFE for import. Enter Kel-Tec KSG (guess where it's inspiration and market were derived from), which in some ways is a better weapon and in other ways it doesn't address the problems that the NS2000 covered.

I'm talking from my time in law enforcement and subsequent retirement from the military. I'm not an expert on firearms, I'm a pilot, but I have extensive trigger time with many brands and systems of pistols, shotguns, rifles, and "assault weapons." I think it's great if you can get a hold of whatever weapon you like, IMO an armed society is a respectful one, but some just aren't available in certain areas without obtaining them illegally. Ask your FLG, they'll let you know what can and can't be gotten.

Cass100199

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« Reply #54 on: <05-15-11/1742:45> »
I'm more of a Colt fan, tbh. I like 1911's. But, you bring up a good point; I was speaking strictly of the US. I disagree as to the military/ paramilitary use, but we can agree to disagree. Hell even the State Dept. was buying H&K's before they moved over to Sig. Everything else you said is generally a re-hash of what I said, so we're in agreement. Just an FYI, Colt wasn't the lowest bidder. Typical Army contracting throws out the lowest and highest bidder and then the rest are evaluated on their particular merits. Anyway, that's a common myth.

As long as you obey the law, having an FFL doesn't cause problems. Don't be stupid with it and you're okay. lol

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So they come standard with the Custom Look modification?

That's an interesting thought. If you go up against a group who all have high end equipment, or if your team does, would there be an intimidation factor? Basic assumptions being that these people went with the best, should know how to use it, and if it's uniform, are being bankrolled.
« Last Edit: <05-15-11/1759:18> by Cass100199 »
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FastJack

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« Reply #55 on: <05-15-11/1801:12> »
Factually untrue. I know more than few people with FFL's and an MP5. And the G36 can be bought by buying the Sl8 and then purchasing a .223/ 5.56 conversion kit. Presto, chango, you now have a G36. Holy Jeebus does anyone actually do research around here? This took me more time to write than actually search for the answer.
You are right you can buy most weapons, depending on certain legality issues where ever you live. With H&K they don't like civilians buying their weapons and for a long time you couldn't get them. But eventually a few slipped out and now they are marketing to non-military/police, and they try to restrict who gets their weapons with a crazy mark-up. They wouldn't have been able to sell any of their stuff in the US, due to the whole GCA68 issue, but they started making the weapons locally so they are available. There are still weapons where I live (AZ) that I just can't get without breaking some serious laws, and I live in one of the most firearms enabled states in the country.

Err umm I'll take it down if you like FJ... My posted seemed to stall out while I was in the rest room so you seemed to post before me.
As long as you're being polite and talking about availability and such, and not about how to play the game, we're good.

FastJack

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« Reply #56 on: <05-16-11/1144:17> »
I removed a couple of posts and sent the authors a private warning about continuing with the previous argument. Please do not let it happen again.

CanRay

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« Reply #57 on: <05-16-11/1207:09> »
I removed a couple of posts and sent the authors a private warning about continuing with the previous argument. Please do not let it happen again.
Did said note come in the form of, "Now kids, play nice.  Grandpa FastJack is old and cranky." like in the Shadowtalk?  :P

Sorry, couldn't help it.
Si vis pacem, para bellum

#ThisTaserGoesTo11

Medicineman

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« Reply #58 on: <05-16-11/1250:00> »
Nahhh, Uncle FastJack is not THAT Grouchy  ;D

He who dances on FastJacks Lawn
Medicineman
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FastJack

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« Reply #59 on: <05-16-11/1407:10> »
<<waves cane at the damn kids on his lawn>>

Meh! Getcha movin'!

Back to topic:

Do some GMs wait until runners have garnered enough Karma/Notoriety before they can get Forbidden equipment?