[FastJack]

Sheldon's never struck me as autistic. It's not that he can't understand the social aspects of the human race, it's that he doesn't want to understand them. A big difference. It's not a failure of comprehension of the rules and mores, but a total lack of interest in spending any time on them when he rather build robots and postulate theories.

[Stahlseele]

Why are we, as humans and as a society, so fascinated by building better robots?
Because we can't build better humans, that's why . .

[CanRay]

Thank you, Stahl.  I couldn't agree with you more.

Except that we're making WORSE humans.   

[Fortinbras]

Really, FJ?
The character doesn't understand sarcasm, yet tries to understand sarcasm in multiple story lines, going so far as to ask when he did and did not get it right.
There are at least half a dozen episodes whose main plot is about Sheldon actively trying to understand why people are doing something, yet failing in this endeavor.
He doesn't understand that bullion cubes is not an acceptable substitute for tea when out of tea.
He throws out food he wants because Monday is not the day he eats that food.
When he insults someone, he is honestly baffled as to why they are insulted because, to him, he has said nothing wrong; only something factual.
He is asexual.
These are all pretty good indicators of autism.

If Sheldon was just a jerk, it wouldn't be funny. Then the show would be about the life and times of a narcissist. While there are moments of that, if Sheldon was completely self absorbed and rude while knowing what he was doing was unacceptable behavior, yet choosing to do it anyway, he would be completely unrelatable. A villain, like the guy with the lisp.
Instead, he as a blundering genius. An absent minded professor, childlike in his misunderstanding of human foibles. He often acts and is treated like a child by the other characters, and is forgiven of his megalomania as one would forgive a child.

He and Abed are also some of the few characters on TV that those with autism can relate to. I can't imagine watching television or films for decades and not seeing anyone like me or even a passing reference to me.
Then again, I'm a white, heterosexual, American, age 18-35. Everyone on TV is like me!

[Rockopolis]

Sorry, but what is Abed from?

[Charybdis]

Really, FJ?
The character doesn't understand sarcasm, yet tries to understand sarcasm in multiple story lines, going so far as to ask when he did and did not get it right.
There are at least half a dozen episodes whose main plot is about Sheldon actively trying to understand why people are doing something, yet failing in this endeavor.

*snip*

If Sheldon was just a jerk, it wouldn't be funny. Then the show would be about the life and times of a narcissist. While there are moments of that, if Sheldon was completely self absorbed and rude while knowing what he was doing was unacceptable behavior, yet choosing to do it anyway, he would be completely unrelatable. A villain, like the guy with the lisp.
Instead, he as a blundering genius. An absent minded professor, childlike in his misunderstanding of human foibles. He often acts and is treated like a child by the other characters, and is forgiven of his megalomania as one would forgive a child.

We're devolving a bit from thread, but it's still interesting.

Sheldon really doesn't qualify as Autistic. OCD with social issues? Oh absolutely, to the n^th degree (There are two diagnosed OCD cases in my family...and I'm pretty close to the line )

I did read about Temple Grandin as per your previous comment. Was a very good reference, so thank you for that education. Again, Sheldon doesn't qualify, and there are some big differences:
- Sensory overload. This is a regular indication of autism, requiring almost a shut-down and reboot (blocking ears, dissociation, hug machine etc). Sheldon enjoys Paintball, Halo and other exciting releases which are in direct conflict with autism symptoms.
- Competitiveness. Sheldon has to win, always, and prove he's the best. Austism sufferers do not normally relate to such egotistic influences (and when he realises he can't do something, like drive a car, he rationalises it's because he's 'too evolved'...)

Where there are similarities:
- Sheldon and temple both find socialising 'boring'. However, Sheldon is sometimes fascinated by people's responses. This however, is sociopathy, not autism (especially when he deliberately provokes emotional responses to see what would happen)
- Sheldon and Temple both enjoy science fiction (however Sheldon then emulates and roleplays such diversions, like his Flash costumes and antics). An autism sufferer would be incredibly unlikely to be so shameless and extroverted.

Sheldon is likely an Obsessive Compulsive Ego-Maniac with sociopathic tendencies. Some symptoms of these issues align with those of Autism, however Sheldon just isn't suffering from that condition.

[Fortinbras]

Autism sufferers do not all fall into one particular category of behavior. There is a spectrum and variance within that spectrum. Many are both competitive and enjoy physical activity.
While there are things he does that do not correspond with some autistic behaviors, there are far more things he does that do; which is often how the disease is diagnosed. It isn't "autistic people don't do A, subject does A, therefore the subject doesn't have autism." It is "autistic people do B, subject does B, therefore subject is displaying one aspect of autism." If the subject does enough of B, then that is traditionally how the subject is diagnosed.
Narcissism, OCPD and sociopathy are all behaviors associated with autism. It is extremely rare to have all three and not be diagnosed at some level of Autism scale.
I can go on about this all day, so I'll let some of the other theories about this sink in.

*The co-creator of the show, Bill Prady, says he didn't intend for the character to have Aspergers, but based him on a programmer he used to know and inserted this guy's quirks into the character. As to whether those quirks belong to someone who has autism, Prady claims he doesn't know. Prady has also stated that he isn't particularly familiar with the disease either.
*Jim Parson, the actor who plays him(native Texan, too!) has said that Sheldon couldn't display more facets of Aspergers. He claims that many of the aspects that affect the way he plays Sheldon come from a memoir about life with autism.
*The character has also been examined by doctors and other professionals that point out that while a sitcom can't diagnose a disease, he displays to many behavioral similarities to those suffering from autism that can't be ignored.

Now I understand why they can't just come out and say it on the show like Community did with Abed, because once you diagnose a character with a disease it dehumanizes the other guys when they rag on him about his quirks and then the show is less funny. It's often said that since his mother didn't have him diagnosed, neither do the writers.
However, on many blogs and forums about living with Autism, people fraggin' LOVE Sheldon. They completely identify him with themselves or their loved ones and couldn't be more pleased about seeing someone like them on television after decades of ignoring the disease.
So I shall take their word for it above all others.

[Charybdis]

Autism sufferers do not all fall into one particular category of behavior. There is a spectrum and variance within that spectrum. Many are both competitive and enjoy physical activity.

I enjoyed reading your whole post, but it was too big to repost

Personally, I find the trend of labelling autism (and aspergers syndrome) to such a wide spectrum actually a really insulting concept.

The analytical process of: 'autistic people do B, subject does B, therefore subject is displaying one aspect of autism' is incredibly flawed.

This is exactly the same as: 'violent people breathe air, subject breathes air, therefore subject is displaying one aspect of violence.

Autism like any illness, has a checklist of symptoms, many of which are inter-related and graded accordingly to be listed on the afore-mentioned spectrum and variance. To simply pick and choose a couple and say 'Subject is demonstrating an aspect of autism' is especially devaluing to real autism sufferers.

Every high-intellect individual I've ever met has some quirk or fascination which they're passionate about. One engineer in particular is very much ADHD (and takes ultra-high caffeine doses to calm down...think about that). He most definitely does not suffer from any Autism/Aspergers syndrome, however he shares many, many traits with Sheldon.

The beauty of the Sheldon-character (for which he is both loved and awarded in his field) is that many, many people can relate to him. Even complete non-academics can empathise with the attitude of 'I'm right, and people should listen to me more. Everyone should just get out of my way now.

I love Sheldon. Autistic people love Sheldon. Am I now displaying an aspect of Autism?

[FastJack]

I applauded both of you because this is a terrific debate (even though it's very off-topic). Autism, like many psychological theories rely mostly in the eye of the beholder and the person being diagnosed. I look back on my growing up and realize that if many of today's ideas were in effect when I was younger, I would have been diagnosed with attention-deficiency (and a couple of other things) because I spent more time in my classes doing other things since I was "ahead" of my classmates.

The autism debate is also a very "hot-button" topic, on many different levels, so I'm hoping the "is he/isn't he" debate about Sheldon remains civil and we all agree that we can disagree on the issue. With that being said, I think we should let the topic get back on course. If you want, I can split this discussion off on its own to see where it goes, but I'm not sure we could explore the subject more than we have already done.

[Redwulfe]

Finally defeat Superman.

But seriously, 12 to 13 logic seems like a lot and to me someone with that much logic would be a Steven Hawking or something. Unless he had a severe thrill seeker mentality he would be a world changing scientist or something rather than a shadowrunner.

[Netzgeist]

I don't want to make the subject keep wandering to other valleys, but I must congratulate Charybdis and Fortinbras for the discussion. I'm a psychology student (almost graduated), and it's difficult to see this kind of open-minded discussion at university itself. It's was really nice to read all that.


Back to the Logic 12/13 character... Redwulfe comment reminded me about the Red Son comics... Think Luthor or Brainiac behavior in this particular story, and you have a interesting model...

And once again, back to the difficulties of being a super-intellect and having to deal with social situations, I have to disagree with social problems being that natural. Thinking about the division in Mental attributes in Shadowrun, I imagine that someone with an average Intuition can at least create a inner model of the values and concepts that someone uses to understand the world, so it would be strange if the character in question would have an incapability to deal with people. The question is, understanding is not approving, and he probably would find people boring and childish. But then, it's a matter of choice treating them in any way according to this judgements.

[Redwulfe]

this really hits the nail on the head. We are looking at the character from the standpoint of a single stat, not from the character as a whole withouth other attributes and qualities how can you really say "this is the way it would be played."

[Longshot23]

What about Brainiac 5 from Legion of Super-Heroes?  Good or Bad example?

[Charybdis]

I don't want to make the subject keep wandering to other valleys, but I must congratulate Charybdis and Fortinbras for the discussion. I'm a psychology student (almost graduated), and it's difficult to see this kind of open-minded discussion at university itself. It's was really nice to read all that.

I applauded both of you because this is a terrific debate (even though it's very off-topic). Autism, like many psychological theories rely mostly in the eye of the beholder and the person being diagnosed. I look back on my growing up and realize that if many of today's ideas were in effect when I was younger, I would have been diagnosed with attention-deficiency (and a couple of other things) because I spent more time in my classes doing other things since I was "ahead" of my classmates.

The autism debate is also a very "hot-button" topic, on many different levels, so I'm hoping the "is he/isn't he" debate about Sheldon remains civil and we all agree that we can disagree on the issue. With that being said, I think we should let the topic get back on course. If you want, I can split this discussion off on its own to see where it goes, but I'm not sure we could explore the subject more than we have already done.

Glad you liked

I'm certain we can all keep it civil There's a history of mental illness in my family... (and yes, I find that actually very funny when people start looking at me curiously )

However I don't think Autism needs a new split topic for further discussion. I'm happy to get back to the OP thread

[Charybdis]

There was a Star Trek:TNG episode where Reg was gifted with supernatural mental abilities.

While his intelligence  (and equivalent Logic stat) went off the scale, that in itself wasn't enough.
His creativity (Intuition) was likewise enhanced, as well as his self-confidence (Willpower) and social interaction (Charisma)

In that episode, he performed amazing feats of engineering, invention and brought Dr.Krusher to tears with his acting ability (while making a very successful pass at Deanna Troy).

However, my point here is that his full-suite of mental faculties were enhanced. He couldn't have performed the engineering feats he did (Logic based) without the creativity to think of them (Intuition).

Without knowing what other stats this logic 12/13 PC may have at their disposal, it's hard to know what they'll be capable of...