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Just got updated SR6 PDF. What changed?

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MercilessMing

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« Reply #15 on: <09-16-21/0051:42> »
I couldn't find the augmented bonus for skills clarification... wasn't in Game Concepts (39) where that is first defined.

Enjoying the addition of vulnerability/allergy to spirits.  Poor Kin spirits though, that's a rough one.

Disappointed that Analytical Mind didn't get a nerf, or at least a cost adjustment.  Sure, design decision I guess. 

Disappointed that initiation and submersion are allowed at chargen.  I know people like doing this but it's just Magicrun.  Initiation was always supposed to be an advancement thing.

More disappointed that you can learn new spells and new complex forms at chargen now.  That makes the Magic column just about completely worthless, and very very little reason to do anything higher than D.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #16 on: <09-16-21/0055:08> »
More disappointed that you can learn new spells and new complex forms at chargen now.  That makes the Magic column just about completely worthless, and very very little reason to do anything higher than D.

That you can't do.  You can spend karma on anything you like, but in chargen there's a restriction against spells/complex forms.  Precisely for that reason.  (see the chart on pg. 68)
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Xenon

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« Reply #17 on: <09-16-21/0144:31> »
The 5 Minor action limit did *not* get  changed, which is surprising and disappointing.
:-(


... pixies officially do as much damage as trolls
Trolls have base damage of 2P, not 2S.

And they typically also have higher DR, melee AR, soak pool, physical condition monitor boxes,... They are typically slightly better fit for an unarmed character than a pixie.

But yes, pixies built for melee will probably be better in melee then a Troll not built for it. But that is kinda the point. You are more free to pick the metatype, armor, weapon of choice, magical tradition etc etc that fit the Style and Background for you and your character. Without getting as mechanically punished for it as you perhaps were in previous edition.


pg 111 Multiple Attacks
The text no longer gives the option of attacking one opponent multiple times.  It's only for attacking multiple opponents.
This should be true when wielding one weapon. But I still think wielding two weapons should give you the option to attack the same target twice, once with each weapon, by splitting your pool. As I see it, this would be one of the few advantages of picking up the ambidextrous quality and for example wielding two axes or two pistols. Oh well.


It's now explicitly stated that all weapons have a SS mode even when it's not listed.
Good.

(realistically speaking it should also be possible to just tap the trigger once to fire one single bullet even if your weapon is still in Semi-Automatic or even Full-Automatic mode - but not Burst Fire mode.... but I can see how that would complicate things, better to just have them switch to Single Shot mode if they want to fire one single bullet).


It's stated that BF and FA do not require the multiple attacks action.
It was not really stated that they did before either, but good that it is now clarified

(I think it was a Huge mistake to remove all them clarifying, but perhaps redundant, rules and examples - for no other reason than to save word count).


It's stated that Anticipation works with BF wide burst without using the multiple attack action.
Interesting

(but it does make sense once you combine it with the change to anticipation).


Full auto is now an AREA attack that does NOT split your dice pool. 
Similar to suppressive fire we used to have in previous edition. A frontal cone AoE attack that hit friend and foe. This is a really good change.

Having said that, I feel that Full Auto should also be possible to use against a single target (perhaps similar to a narrow burst attack, but spending more bullets).


Related change: pg 47 Anticipation

Double your dice pool and split it as evenly as possible for each different target.
Good!
« Last Edit: <09-16-21/0216:15> by Xenon »

MercilessMing

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« Reply #18 on: <09-16-21/0916:33> »
More disappointed that you can learn new spells and new complex forms at chargen now.  That makes the Magic column just about completely worthless, and very very little reason to do anything higher than D.

That you can't do.  You can spend karma on anything you like, but in chargen there's a restriction against spells/complex forms.  Precisely for that reason.  (see the chart on pg. 68)

Good good.  That note on the table helps.  The reason I got that idea is from the Initiation/Submersion change.  The text that allows it is basically a clarification that customization karma can be used on anything.  Old text:
Quote from: SR6 2nd Printing
Each character receives 50 Karma to make a little move forward. The points are spent on skill or attribute advancement, as well as additional funds to get those last gear pieces you might have missed or an additional quality (though the limit of six qualities still applies). See Character Advancement (p. 68) for the price of buying these advances.

New Text:
Quote from: SR6 3rd Printing
Each character receives 50
Karma to spend on character advancement, such as skills, attributes, qualities, and additional funds to get some additional pieces of gear. See Character Advancement (p. 68) for the price of buying these advances.

The new text is more generic, phrasing skills/attr/qual as examples rather than the list of things you can spend it on, deferring the full list to the Character Advancement section.  Initiation is in there, as are new spells and forms.  Without that note in the table, this would be more confusing.

Beta

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« Reply #19 on: <09-16-21/0959:44> »

However, I still think we did a lot of good.  Some things to look forward to:


Thank you for the summary, and thank you SO MUCH to you and all of the errata team for this.  It sounds like a very material improvement to quality of play :)

Also I'm really happy that they are releasing the Seattle edition for free to previous purchasers.

MercilessMing

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« Reply #20 on: <09-16-21/1021:18> »
Also I'm really happy that they are releasing the Seattle edition for free to previous purchasers.
I have to wonder if that was intentional.  I kinda think they just didn't make a new product. 

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #21 on: <09-16-21/1202:24> »
I mean they sent out the mail that it was deliberate? "Customers who previously purchased Shadowrun, Sixth World will be upgraded to the City Edition: Seattle PDF at no charge."
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Typhus

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« Reply #22 on: <09-16-21/1215:24> »
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yeah, you're likely to only get 1 or 2 points, but hey, that's still nice!

I can't find anything that states that vehicle armor works differently than regular armor, so it would seem you only get the Hardened Armor effect by way of this spell?   

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #23 on: <09-16-21/1315:12> »
Quote
yeah, you're likely to only get 1 or 2 points, but hey, that's still nice!

I can't find anything that states that vehicle armor works differently than regular armor, so it would seem you only get the Hardened Armor effect by way of this spell?

Yeah just the spell got an erratum.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Banshee

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« Reply #24 on: <09-16-21/1348:17> »
Quote
yeah, you're likely to only get 1 or 2 points, but hey, that's still nice!

I can't find anything that states that vehicle armor works differently than regular armor, so it would seem you only get the Hardened Armor effect by way of this spell?

Check out Double Clutch that is also in release this week at Gencon ... not sure if the PDF is available for sale yet. We out somenew vehicle armor rules in it ... as well as lots if other fun toys.
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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Former RPG Lead Agent
Catalyst Demo Team

Typhus

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« Reply #25 on: <09-16-21/1402:25> »
Will the movement rules be addressed at all? 

Banshee

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« Reply #26 on: <09-16-21/1405:19> »
Will the movement rules be addressed at all?

What aspect of movement?
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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Former RPG Lead Agent
Catalyst Demo Team

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #27 on: <09-16-21/1426:24> »
If you mean the movement critter power: yes, that got errata'd.

If you mean the movement of vehicles: yes and no.  There rules from the crb remain, but there's also a new chase mechanic where speeds and distances are relative rather than absolute.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Typhus

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« Reply #28 on: <09-16-21/1427:30> »
Well, any/all of it really. 

My gripes about it are basically:

(1) Handling breaks the rules around how to use Thresholds, and implies by extension that controlling certain vehicles is a feat of legendary effort in some cases.  There's no guidance on how to apply the rules, and the GM and player both end up winging it.  A Threshold modifier per vehicle would make much more sense and be consistent. 

(2) Acceleration rules are excess math at the table, and makes for some silly situations. If they both start moving at the same time, Dodge Scoots can't even catch up to a walking character for about 6 rounds, for example.  I don't even want to think about trying to pilot a drone in tactical character combat while contending with Acceleration rules.  Plotting drone movement with that mechanic is pretty cumbersome.  Drones moving at character scale need to have character scale speeds.  The rating being divided by 2 to get to distance travelled is also a problem.  The movement should be the movement, not a calculation.  Considering the hand waving in other sections, there's no need to be this detailed here.

(3) I'd rather see Speed Intervals universalized as to when they kick in.  It's more excess math at the table.  They can vary per vehicle if needed, but I only care about Half Max, 3/4 Max, and Max.  I'm not tracking m/CR in a chase scenario.  I can't imagine trying to use that mechanic (I've always had to work around it in every edition that has it).

(4) Basically, you can't really use the existing vehicle movement rules to have a chase of any sort.  They don't even seem aimed at that outcome. 

If there's any changes to any of those aspects to make the rules usable, I'd be glad to know they may be coming.  Right now, I'd have to re-write that whole section to have a rigger character's turn feel fun and interesting.  Sorry to say, I really can't use them as is.   

Typhus

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« Reply #29 on: <09-16-21/1431:36> »
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There rules from the crb remain, but there's also a new chase mechanic where speeds and distances are relative rather than absolute.

That's good to know.  Anything for using drones at character scales more easily?