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[6e] Jumping

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MercilessMing

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« on: <08-09-21/1212:33> »
Will there be errata on Jumping coming in the next release?  the rule buried in Hydraulic Jacks is terrible, and the German rule isn't much better.

The English rule buried in Hydraulic Jacks pg 290: ATH + STR test, character jumps .1 meter vertically for each hit,  or .2 meter horizontally for each hit.  Hydraulic Jacks add their rating as a dice pool mod.

German rule (as I've heard it from Reddit): Dex + Athletics, each success lets you jump 1 meter/yard from standing and 2 meters/yards with momentum. Also, 0.5 meters/yards per success straight up into the air, up to 1.5x[your height].

The English rule is terrible because the numbers are so low and leave out standing vs running jump.  The German rule is terrible because the numbers vary wildly by success total.
« Last Edit: <08-09-21/1220:00> by MercilessMing »

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: <08-09-21/1316:13> »
Short answer is yes. The new rule will abandon determining  exact distance/height. Because, in play, that typically doesn't matter. What matters is did you jump high/far enough, so it's going to a standard, threshold-based success test.

I can't say when it will go public (because I don't know), but I have my hopes that you'll see official publication for Gen Con.
« Last Edit: <08-09-21/1417:38> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Smogg

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« Reply #2 on: <08-11-21/1350:03> »
What matters is did you jump high/far enough, so it's going to a standard, threshold-based success test.

That makes so much sense!

MercilessMing

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« Reply #3 on: <08-11-21/1510:43> »
Short answer is yes. The new rule will abandon determining  exact distance/height. Because, in play, that typically doesn't matter. What matters is did you jump high/far enough, so it's going to a standard, threshold-based success test.

I can't say when it will go public (because I don't know), but I have my hopes that you'll see official publication for Gen Con.
Thanks.  Hardy said in that recent interview that he hopes the Seattle edition of the CRB will be available at Gen Con; if that's true and it contains the errata does that mean it's all final now because printing is happening?

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #4 on: <08-11-21/1621:48> »
I hope so.

I cant promise or say for sure, because errata team is separated from what's published by a couple layers.  Sometimes what gets printed isn't what was put in to BE printed...see the "strength adds to AR" chaos.  For what it's worth, THAT is supposed to be fixed once and for all, too :D we'll just have to see, in the end...
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

MercilessMing

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« Reply #5 on: <08-12-21/1041:34> »
Okay.  I really hope it's in there, it would be shortsighted to release a  new edition right when errata is coming out.  I'm looking forward to actually getting a print copy of the CRB and if this round of errata isn't in it, that's really going to ruin it for me.

Typhus

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« Reply #6 on: <09-16-21/1216:41> »
It's still under Hydraulic Jacks and with no info on how jumping works normally elsewhere.  It just refers to the Threshold Chart.   :(

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #7 on: <09-16-21/1313:36> »
It's still under Hydraulic Jacks and with no info on how jumping works normally elsewhere.  It just refers to the Threshold Chart.   :(

Right.  The GM establishes a threshold based on the attempted jump on question.  Under the circumstances, making it from this rooftop to that one might be threshold 4.  Another gap might be 3.  Another might be 6.  GM discretion, as with basically all thresholds.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Typhus

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« Reply #8 on: <09-16-21/1351:29> »
Which isn't stated anywhere in relation to jumping.  There's literally no guidance for the GM on how to handle that.  It leaves a lot of questions unanswered.  Also jump rules really belong under Athletics. 

(Not your choices, I know.  I guess I'm just grumping.)

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #9 on: <09-16-21/1434:05> »
Which isn't stated anywhere in relation to jumping.  There's literally no guidance for the GM on how to handle that.  It leaves a lot of questions unanswered. 

But... that's how the threshold guidance chart works.

is the task at hand, after you weigh all the variables and considerations, most comparable to the example given for threshold X?  Then use threshold X. 

Jumping example: maybe a runner wants to leap from one rooftop to another, which is separated by a narrow alleyway.  GM weighs whether there's a good bit of room available for a running start, whether the destination rooftop is slightly higher or lower than the current one, how far the gap is, whether you're carrying heavy equipment/extractees, etc.  The guidance chart isn't going to cover all those variables.  Maybe, when it's all said and done, the gm figures this is a doable but challenging task.  Going by the guidelines, that's about a threshold 4.  Maybe, if the runner wants to leap in another direction, across a major boulevard to a higher rooftop, the gm might determine it's theoretically possible, but would be a remarkable world-record style feat, and call the threshold 6 or even higher.



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Also jump rules really belong under Athletics. 

No argument there, but just couldn't make them fit on pg. 93.  One of the hard rules errata has to work within: the layout cannot be changed (too many headaches, particularly with tables of contents and index)
« Last Edit: <09-16-21/1443:04> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Typhus

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« Reply #10 on: <09-16-21/1442:31> »
I'm not asking for everything, I'm asking for anything.  There's not even a rule that says "Jumps are a matter of making a (X+X) test to clear the gap.  Refer to the Threshold Chart to set the Threshold for jumping".  I don't think that's an unreasonable ask. 


Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #11 on: <09-16-21/1446:31> »
I'm not asking for everything, I'm asking for anything.  There's not even a rule that says "Jumps are a matter of making a (X+X) test to clear the gap.  Refer to the Threshold Chart to set the Threshold for jumping".  I don't think that's an unreasonable ask.

I suspect I'm not following your criticism, since it does literally say:

"When making jumping tests (Athletics + Strength)..."  Rather than saying "this is the threshold for a broad jump of x meters, this is the threshold for a high jump of x meters, and etc" it just says "establish an appropriate threshold to roll against, using the guidance provided."  Does that not give you what you're asking? (even if it's not located under the athletics skill, like we both prefer it could have been)
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Typhus

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« Reply #12 on: <09-16-21/1455:38> »
On mine it says:

"When making jumping tests (Athletics + Strength) subtract the hydraulic jacks rating from the threshold
(see Threshold Guidelines p. 36), with a minimum modified threshold of 1." 

End of statement.   

Questions become things like: Well, what's the farthest I could jump?  Where should the GM say yes/no/roll for it?  I'm fine with the idea, I'm just saying it could be more specific.  Considering what climbing and swimming have written, it's barely anything to go on.     

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #13 on: <09-16-21/1519:28> »
On mine it says:

"When making jumping tests (Athletics + Strength) subtract the hydraulic jacks rating from the threshold
(see Threshold Guidelines p. 36), with a minimum modified threshold of 1." 

End of statement.   

Questions become things like: Well, what's the farthest I could jump?  Where should the GM say yes/no/roll for it?  I'm fine with the idea, I'm just saying it could be more specific.  Considering what climbing and swimming have written, it's barely anything to go on.     

If the GM says that under the circumstances, a 100 meter jump is physically possible, then that's possible under those circumstances.  GM will tell you what the threshold is.  And if you have that cyberware, you reduce that threshold by the given amount.

If you ask "what's the threshold to jump from here to the moon" the GM will probably say "that's not possible".  But if they instead say "10 billion", then your threshold is (10 billion - hydraulic jacks rating)
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Typhus

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« Reply #14 on: <09-16-21/1522:59> »
Which people would only know for sure is true if they came to this forum and read what you just typed.