[savaze]

The Slivergun has always held a special place in my heart.  It's that cool Heavy Pistol version of a Machine Pistol, but doesn't use the Automatics skill.  I don't always want to use flechette rounds, even though the AP penalties are less severe from the Viper.  Is it/would it be possible to overhaul the pistol to use normal rounds? If so what am I looking at for mod values/stats?

Ares Viper Slivergun 8P(f ) +2 SA/BF — 30 (c) 5R 500¥
Name/Damage/AP/Mode/RC/Ammo/Availability/Cost

Would the new statistics just reverse engineer the flechette out (+2P +5AP)?

New stat possibilities:
6P -3 SA/BF — 30 (c) 5R ?¥ (Still looks like the Viper so legality on sight would be the same, Price: 500+parts?, Ruger Super Warhawk eat your heart out)

Possible assumptions (you know what they say about assuming):
1) Flechette is proprietary and smaller than Heavy Pistol rounds, meaning more rounds fit into the HP mag: 30 instead of 12.
2) Flechette is proprietary and has some armor piercing qualities, meaning the Flechette only gives a +3 AP instead of +5 AP.
3) Flechette is proprietary and has more bang for it's buck, meaning +3P instead of +2P.
4) The loading mechanism was specially designed to increase the cyclic rate of the flechette and can't maintain that with 'normal' size rounds, meaning BF is possible.

Result:
5P -1 SA — 12 (c) 5R ?¥ (~ standard heavy pistol)

Maybe some of the assumptions are true and some aren't like:
6P -3 SA/BF — 12 (c) 5R ?¥ (= #1; ≠ #2-4)
6P -1 SA/BF — 30 (c) 5R ?¥ (= #2; ≠ #1,3,4)
5P -3 SA/BF — 30 (c) 5R ?¥ (= #3; ≠ #1,2,4)
6P -3 SA       — 30 (c) 5R ?¥ (= #4; ≠ #1-3)
Or one of the 16 combinations possible... I'm leaning towards assumptions #1&2 being true (6P -1 SA/BF — 12 (c) 5R ?¥) or everything but #2 being true (5P -3 SA — 12 (c) 5R ?¥)

Or is this all just a pipe dream?

[Critias]

To me, the Viper's cool because it's...well...what it is.  A slivergun.  If all you're after is a burst fire heavy pistol, why not just use the existing modification rules to make a burst fire heavy pistol?

[savaze]

'Cause it's the Slivergun and it's cool. I just wanted some more options with it... 

One cool pistol vs several to do the job with less style!

[savaze]

Maybe it could be modded to the standard HP, 5P -1 SA — 12 (c), when it uses normal rounds, but is back to itself with it's 'Slivers.'

[Critias]

To me, it's always been the slivergun part that gave it some style;  the necessity to call most of your shots, that sort of thing.  Everyone's mileage varies, though.  Don't let me stop ya if you're having fun tweakin' it and the GM is cool with the changes.   

[savaze]

This is all insomniac ponderings. 

There doesn't seem to be any gaming groups in a 2 hour radius over here.  I'm afraid table-top is being bumped out for video games...  I've tried to start three groups in the last year, but they all fell through.  I've canvased the local gaming stores with no serious hits.  The stores are only getting Pokemon & Magic players.  I'm not sure who's buying the material, but it still seems to sell.  Maybe it's High Schoolers and/or closet gamers???

[Billy_Club]

Wow, remind me not to move down there.    In-person games are still very popular up my way.

As for the pistol, I say go for it.  I'd likely settle for something slightly more cool than an off-the-shelf model but costs a fair bit.  I agree that the Slivergun is cool, though having it not shoot slivers might require a name change?

[CanRay]

The Slivergun is great for Security Personnel who deal with unarmored opponents while they themselves have armor, less worries about friendly fire.  Against actual security forces who will have at least some kind of armor, not so good.  (Unless you're dealing with Ghetto, Bargain Basement Security who only have armored clothing.).

If you want something that will cut through armor, perhaps they can be fed with the armor-piercing flechettes from War!.

If not, it's a great Anti-Ganger weapon, or something for a licensed civilian to carry for self-defense with the now proliferation of armoring up clothing.  "Anyone of real importance would be wearing armored clothing, officer, so I could safety shoot at those SINless Punks that were trying to do nasty things to that woman."  Great for the more militantly minded that would see a Taser as too "Wimpy".

[KarmaInferno]

What, no Dikote?

Also, where's the inhabited Ally spirit?




-k

[Angelone]

Don't they have tungston flechete in War! that has better armor defeating traits? Wish I had my books

[Critias]

Don't they have tungston flechete in War! that has better armor defeating traits? Wish I had my books

Yeah, and they use Impact armor, not Ballistic -- but they're also availability 18, and cost 16 nuyen a round. 

Personally, I've always liked the idea that the Viper isn't just another pistol (that happens to shoot flechette).  This is nothing canon, and no book says so, but it's so much better than other heavy pistols in a few key ways, that the explanation that makes sense (to me) is that it just doesn't work like any other gun.  It's got the rate of fire that it does, it's got the magazine capacity that it does, and it's got the built-in lack of sound that it does, by being something besides a traditional firearm.  The "magazine" is some sort of solid polymer brick, and the gun fires by scraping slivers off that brick and hurtling them down the barrel a whole lot of slivers at a time.

It's not so much a generic heavy pistol that happens to only shoot flechettes for some reason, as something completely "out there" compared to traditional gun designs (a specialized needle-gun in a very cyberpunk or even sci-fi sense)...in my head.  I don't know how else to explain why it has double or triple the average heavy pistol ammo, a better firing mode, a built-in silencer (that you can't see in any picture of it), and all for the same size, otherwise.

So that's part of why I, personally, dislike tweaking it to get even more out of it, or to make it fire regular or other upgraded ammo.  In my brain, all it's got in common with a Predator is the company who makes it.

[CanRay]

The right tool for the right job.  The Ares Slivergun is great for unarmored targets.  Armored targets get the Ares Predator treatment.

Or, you know...  "Get the rifle you shouldn't have been away from in the first place."   

[Mäx]

Ares Viper Slivergun 8P(f ) +2 SA/BF — 30 (c) 5R 500¥
Name/Damage/AP/Mode/RC/Ammo/Availability/Cost

LOL, havent even noticed before that they fucked up that table in the Anniversary book.
Sliver guns AP is supposed to be +5 not +2, check the 1,8 corebook errata or arsenal errata(both available in here http://www.shadowrun4.com/game-resources/)

[Critias]

Ares Viper Slivergun 8P(f ) +2 SA/BF — 30 (c) 5R 500¥
Name/Damage/AP/Mode/RC/Ammo/Availability/Cost

LOL, havent even noticed before that they fucked up that table in the Anniversary book.
Sliver guns AP is supposed to be +5 not +2, check the 1,8 corebook errata or arsenal errata(both available in here http://www.shadowrun4.com/game-resources/)

It is +5 in my copy of SR4A.  The page number is correct, and all the rest of the line is the same in my book, but it's listed as +5, not +2.  I'm not sure if Savaze just typoed, or has some freak mutant book, or what.

[Loki]

My 4a book has it wrong as well.