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Hacking a Sin / Creating a Police Record on a SIN

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Sir Ludwig

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« on: <01-11-21/1832:42> »
Good Afternoon,

I am running two games this weekend.  One of for new players which will be followed by a game ending the current chapter of a campaign.  So, the new players will get to be part of the big ending. I don't want a lot of page flipping in the second game. 

There is some conflict within the group in game (NOT IRL).  However, I expect the hacker is going to try to hack another characters SIN (Level/Rank 5) to make them look like they have a record.   

Question:  What would be the process to do this?

To avoided leading the witness I will keep my opinion to myself for now. 

Thanks
SL
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: <01-11-21/2001:44> »
Something like that ought to be accomplished through Contacts.  Hacking in Shadowrun generally only gives short term benefits, not including being able to hold onto stolen data for basically as long as you want to.

What you're saying sounds like adding a negative quality. (Criminal SIN in5e, SINner in 6e).  *I* would represent the efforts through downtime activities. A) it's PvP and if you give it spotlight, you have no idea where it'll go.  B) these kind of activities have to be done slowly, over time, if there's any hope for passing scrutiny (hey, all these criminal complaints are dated over the past few years, but the checksums on these files all indicate that they were created within seconds of each other...)  In addition to requiring a law enforcement/lawyer kind of contact or NPC who will lend credibility to the hack, I'd require some sum of karma and/or nuyen that is paid to said contact(s) to offset the karma the other character is going to have to buy off to undo your shenanigans.  For example if it's gonna cost your victim 16 karma to buy off the Criminal SIN, then I'm gonna make you PAY 16 karma (or some mix of karma and nuyen to be "equitable) to put it there in the first place.
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Reaver

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« Reply #2 on: <01-12-21/0158:53> »
I agree with SSDR, but for other reasons.

If you look at hacking, and what it accomplishes, some things are beyond the realm of the Runner. The next closest thing to this is hacking ownership... and look at the mess those rules are, and the interval that is required.... Now, try hacking the tightest database on the planet (Sin registry) AND the next tightest database (Government)..... this is not something done in a few rolls.

"Hacking" SINs requires entire criminal organizations that employ more then slicing electrons to make and copy those SINs...  (And this goes beyond the meta-game reasons of "breaking economy" and "breaking Social Systems" and whatnot...)

Also, Think about what the player is really asking you here:

"Bob" wants to fuck over "Fred", and hack his FAKE (hence only rating 5, as all REAL SINs technically don't have ratings.*)...

All this does (IF it was possible!) was fuck over the actual person that the SIN is copied from (At rating 5, there is real DNA on that SIN, and it links to someone close to "Fred" DNA wise, but not "Fred" directly).... and burn the fake SIN for "Fred".
"Fred" buys a new fake SIN, all is good.

Really, all he is asking to do is just burn "Fred's" Fake SIN... A whole lot of dice rolling and table time wasting for what could happen from any credstic reader of quality..

And I ask you, is this really a road you want to go down?

*Some people argue that Rating 6 SINs are real SINs... but even Rating 6 SINs will fail a through enough check, if someone really has an interest in looking that closely. But a real SIN can never fail a test; unless its been tampered with (AKA some organization has made a copy of it and is up to no good. A Government, or SIN Issuer has changed it..)
« Last Edit: <01-12-21/0203:25> by Reaver »
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Xenon

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« Reply #3 on: <01-12-21/0514:06> »
Sir Ludwig,
What you are asking is not supported by the rules (at least when using SR5 as reference)

And even if it was the player your hacker is trying to fuck over probably does not have a legit SIN to mess with anyway. As the character is SINless it is not really possible to flag their existing SIN as a criminal (like in that classic movie The Net from '95)

At most it would appear as if one of his fake SINs appear to be a criminal SIN (or perhaps that such an amount of the supporting data on his fake SIN is compromised in such a way which make it easier for future SIN verification systems to realize that it is not legit and burn the fake SIN, if you manage to change enough supporting data then perhaps it just appear to be a fake rating 4 SIN instead of a fake rating 5 SIN).



Reaver,
The way I read SIN verification units (at least when using SR5 as reference) is that they read your SIN from your matrix persona and then double check its integrity against various sources within the matrix. And then it report back if the SIN appeared to be legit or if it was obvious fake. Just a binary answer. The SIN verification unit does not seem to be using any sort of facial recognition or blood samples as input data. Mechanically there does not seem to be need for any social tests. Or disguise related test. Or wearing fingerprint sleeves etc.

The SIN verification unit does also not seem to present any image, or information about blood group, current employer, length or eye color or whatnot as output for the operator to cross-reference (just a binary response - the character in front of you is a legit citizen or the character in front of you tried to use a fake SIN which is now burned).

...with the exception that if the operator a law enforcement agent or an government official that have access to the correct software then they can decode 4 things from the string itself (Name, Place of Birth, Date of Birth and the name of the Nation/Corporation that issued the SIN). But still no photo etc (a SIN is not a passport or an ID card).

From a SIN verification unit point of view the biggest difference between a rating 5 and a rating 6 fake SIN seem to be that a rating 6 fake SIN have a believable and accurate financial datatrail as well as a complete history of supporting data going back to date of birth with no unaccounted gaps at all (for black-ops cutting edge SIN verification units they both have DNA on file with matching samples).
« Last Edit: <01-12-21/0518:38> by Xenon »

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #4 on: <01-12-21/0642:35> »
Hacking a fake SIN is huge. What my players did instead once, was having a commlink loudly broadcast (in the matrix, not vocally) 'By Law I must inform everyone that I am a registered sex offender'. Another option is faking an arrest warrant. All much easier.
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Sir Ludwig

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« Reply #5 on: <01-12-21/1121:20> »
Everyone,

Thanks for the feedback. It was pretty much what I was thinking.

Michael, oddly the "sex offender" thing is what I expect the other player is going to do.  The matrix broadcast and hacking a commlink is straight forward.  How would the faking an arrest warrant go?  I would still think that requires hacking a PD which again, would is a difficult task in my mind.

Regards,
SL
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #6 on: <01-12-21/1135:20> »
Yeah, you'd either have to hack a police department, or hack a bounty hunter and send them a fake bounty.
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Banshee

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« Reply #7 on: <01-12-21/1248:16> »
Alternatively if you're just looking for an end around way for a hacker to cause some serious daily life hassles for fellow runner, then it can mimicked by hacking the characters commlink and setting a "data bomb" but change the effect to broadcast a signal that attracts PD attention as a "person of interest "
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