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[SR6] Unarmed Damage Typo?

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j2klbs

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« on: <10-31-20/2157:54> »
I believe unarmed damage is base 2S (p. 94).

But in the grappling section (p. 111) there is reference to unarmed damage being (STR/2, roundup).

Is the rule in grappling in error?  I checked the Errata (August 2019) and did not see any clarification.

Xenon

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« Reply #1 on: <11-01-20/0327:40> »
Perhaps the intention is that if you are strong then you deal more damage when you squeeze your target.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #2 on: <11-01-20/0423:23> »
Originally Unarmed Damage was STR/2, but this was partially errataed out. However, not perfectly, but the intent is that it is 2S now.
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j2klbs

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« Reply #3 on: <11-01-20/1127:35> »
Thank you guys!  I suspect it is an oversight because the grappling rules make reference to this being their normal unarmed damage, which is not the case.  :D

Beta

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« Reply #4 on: <11-01-20/1151:14> »
Given the greater difficulties of getting to do damage through grappling (you need at least a turn to get the hold, then then prevent the opponent from breaking out, before you can apply damage), I kind of like that it is one spot where high strength could potentially shine.
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Darksithmstr

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« Reply #5 on: <11-15-20/0124:06> »
I thought the was the case Michael, but why did they change it to 2S, i mean they took Strengths effect away from weapons, why not let greater strength affect the overall damage?
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Xenon

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« Reply #6 on: <11-15-20/0311:07> »
Strength is still used for the minimum Bow rating and damage value of bow is equal to half its rating (up to a maximum rating of 14, at which point a fully Legal Bow deal the same base DV as a fully Illegal Panther XXL assault cannon). Also Attack Rating is influenced by the rating of the Bow.

Strength is added to the listed Attack Rating of melee weapons (except for Whips, where you instead add Reaction). Both Strength and Reaction is used for the Unarmed Combat's Attack Rating.

Strength is also used both as a linked attribute to Close Combat as well as one of the opposing attributes when the attacker is restraining, squeezing or tackling an opponent. And for Athletics when Climbing or Jumping or when there is extra resistance (for example running through mud, swimming against the current or breaking out from a critter using the Engulf power).

Hits from a Strength test is adding to the damage value while trying to break through a barrier with axes, picks and hammers etc.

Strength is setting the limit of how much you can lift before taking a Lift/Carry test.

The attackers Strength is used as a threshold if a defender in melee combat is trying to Wrest the attacker's melee weapon away from them as part of a Block action.

Strength (+ Body) is used to prevent you to get pulled away or things from getting pulled away from you (for example against a magician using Animate Metal spell or Levitate spell, stuck with glue spray or a critter using Binding power)



TL;DR: So while Strength is not super important one also don't want to totally ignore it. I would say that most characters should aim for a Strength of 2 (otherwise they will have to take Lift/Carry tests every time they wish to pick up items that weigh more than 10kg). Melee Characters (and Medium Machine Gun users) should probably aim for a Strength of at least 3+. Or even 5+ if they are seriously focused on melee (or Heavy Machine Guns). But the only time they should have a really high focus on Strength is if they plan on using Bows as their primary weapon.

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #7 on: <11-15-20/1051:33> »
I thought the was the case Michael, but why did they change it to 2S, i mean they took Strengths effect away from weapons, why not let greater strength affect the overall damage?

The base DV of weapons went down a lot. Heavy machine guns are what 6DV, just being strong getting you there probably felt weird, and it boosting unarmed when it didn't boost a club just seems weird as well. That being said close combat should be a strength skill, it would effectively scale the DV 1 per 3 strength from your die rolls. Agility covering everything continues to be a flaw, since 4e. For people who wanted to be brawlers, or more specifically the classic adept. It doesn't help how expensive critical strike is now for adepts, continually pushing people into the bio-adept out of necessity instead of preference. But hey I guess they can mostly ignore strength, unless they are concerned about all the blue moon events Xenon listed just improve it enough so you don't give edge often, better covered by having a high reaction as that stat actually does something routinely useful. Maybe eventually get your strength up to the point you might get a edge.

Honestly they should redo all the physical skills. Athletics should be strength, close combat should be strength. Agility should be more hand eye coordination, slight of hand stuff, strength should cover the skills that fall more under explosive action.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #8 on: <11-15-20/1108:00> »
One of the reasons STR left unarmed DV is because there ended up being two kinds of melee weapons: those with static DVs and those "unarmed" style weapons that incorporated a fraction of STR.  It ended up being a real problem as to ascertain which should be which.  Exhibit A: Bone Lacing/Bone Density starting with a static DV, then getting errata'd to be an "unarmed" style weapon, then finally errata taking STR out of close combat DVs.

And yes, a big reason why everything just went to static rather than everything abandoning static is because of guns having such small DVs.  Doesn't do for a baseball bat to be more devastating than a panther assault cannon.

Honestly they should redo all the physical skills. Athletics should be strength, close combat should be strength. Agility should be more hand eye coordination, slight of hand stuff, strength should cover the skills that fall more under explosive action.

Well something that isn't made explicit is that skills aren't "hard coded" to given attributes.  You're supposed to use whatever attribute is most appropriate to the task at hand.  So, explicitly, yes Athletics uses Agility "most of the time" but when it comes to things like climbing you use Strength instead.  Implicitly, this applies across the board to all skills.  Using a great big hammer to smash puny humies?  Feel free to roll Close Combat + Strength instead of Agility.
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