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[SR6] Repairing Matrix Damage

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MercilessMing

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« on: <10-07-20/2014:19> »
pg 175, Repairing Matrix Damage is an Engineering + Logic extended test. 
Whyyyyyyy?   An electronics specialization wasn't even created for Engineering, and the Electronics skill description includes 'fine tuning hardware' and 'kludging software' as uses.  No mechanic exists for hardware tuning or writing software, but both of those are build/repair concepts.

I'm just a bit salty from making a decker and having to dedicate 10 karma to basic engineering + homebrewed specialization just so I can fix my own gear.  Definitely wishing it was covered by Electronics.  Then I could also buy an electronics toolkit to do repairs without that being a  made-up item and have to explain each time that even though its electronics, it's not the electronics skill. 

Banshee

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« Reply #1 on: <10-07-20/2340:28> »
That's because I was directed that Engineering was to include all of the build and repair skills, otherwise I would have used Electronics.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #2 on: <10-08-20/0020:07> »
That's because I was directed that Engineering was to include all of the build and repair skills, otherwise I would have used Electronics.

I suspected that putting all B/R together into one skill was a factor.

I thought though that it was an archetype balance thing.  We can't allow the decker to do everything they do on just two skills, now can we?

Still... I almost can't imagine playing a Decker who didn't invest in Engineering anyway.  It's a LOG skill.  Make the most of your high LOG stat!  Not to mention your Analytical Mind ;)
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Xenon

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« Reply #3 on: <10-08-20/0237:55> »
With 1 skill (electronics) you become the team's matrix researcher.
With 2 skills (+ cracking) you also become the team's hacker.
With 3 skills (+ engineering) you also become the team's MacGyver.
With 4 skills (+ piloting) you also become the team's wheelman.

Engineering in this edition is awesome (especially since you already made your investment into Logic). It does not just replace various mechanical build and repair, it is also used for gunnery (in case you hack an enemy drone), physically bypassing locks (even pad locks that you can't hack), making and disarming explosives, modifying weapons and armors, repairing matrix damage (in case your cyberdeck take damage), ...

It also seem as if the plan is to expand on the concept of hybrid builds. Deckers that also have engineering and piloting (while using a cyberdeck) as well as riggers that also have electronics and cracking (while using a RCC).

MercilessMing

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« Reply #4 on: <10-08-20/1359:55> »
That's because I was directed that Engineering was to include all of the build and repair skills, otherwise I would have used Electronics.

I suspected that putting all B/R together into one skill was a factor.

I thought though that it was an archetype balance thing.  We can't allow the decker to do everything they do on just two skills, now can we?

Still... I almost can't imagine playing a Decker who didn't invest in Engineering anyway.  It's a LOG skill.  Make the most of your high LOG stat!  Not to mention your Analytical Mind ;)
Bah!  I took B Skills and still didn't want it.  I was making an "investigative journalist" (conspiracy blogger) and needed those points in Influence and Stealth!

Leith

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« Reply #5 on: <10-08-20/1953:40> »
Couldn't you snag a contact that could fix you gear when it gets fragged? That might fit the concept real well too.

Reaver

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« Reply #6 on: <10-09-20/0350:53> »
Couldn't you snag a contact that could fix you gear when it gets fragged? That might fit the concept real well too.

Not a bad idea, but talk to your GM first on how this is going to work....
Dropping a few neuyen to get a contact to fix something? Fine for most GMs.
Expecting a contact to do it for free? Probably not going to fly...
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Hobbes

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« Reply #7 on: <10-09-20/0845:53> »
There isn't anything stopping you from making multiple repair attempts.  You just need enough of a dice pool/Edge pool that you won't critically glitch. 

If you're participating in Cybercombat your Logic can't be all that bad.  Even defaulting will fix a box or two each attempt.

All a higher dice pool does is fix a device in an hour or two instead of three or four hours. 

And it's 5 Karma for a single skill rank, and you really don't need it out of char gen.  If it waits a run or two it shouldn't matter much.

MercilessMing

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« Reply #8 on: <10-09-20/1153:56> »
Quote
There isn't anything stopping you from making multiple repair attempts.  You just need enough of a dice pool/Edge pool that you won't critically glitch.

If you're participating in Cybercombat your Logic can't be all that bad.  Even defaulting will fix a box or two each attempt.
The downside for crit glitching is so bad on this test that defaulting is not an option.  My char has a DP of 9 and that's about the minimum I would feel comfortable attempting with.  I'll be holding my breath on that 2nd leg with 8 dice.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #9 on: <10-10-20/0446:15> »
Isn't crit-glitch chance higher with 9 than 8? 1sec, grabbing anydice.com... 8 dice have ~0.11% chance at 5+ ones and no hits, 9 dice 0.13%. 7 dice are 0.41% at 4+ ones, 10 are at 0.03% for 6+ ones.

If you want to easily check yourself:
output [lowest of 1 and [highest of 0 and (7d{0:3, 1:1, -100: 2}-3)]]
output [lowest of 1 and [highest of 0 and (8d{0:3, 1:1, -100: 2}-4)]]
output [lowest of 1 and [highest of 0 and (9d{0:3, 1:1, -100: 2}-4)]]
output [lowest of 1 and [highest of 0 and (10d{0:3, 1:1, -100: 2}-5)]]

Oh wait. Extended. Right. Yeah, then go for higher counts.
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Hobbes

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« Reply #10 on: <10-10-20/1045:03> »
Quote
There isn't anything stopping you from making multiple repair attempts.  You just need enough of a dice pool/Edge pool that you won't critically glitch.

If you're participating in Cybercombat your Logic can't be all that bad.  Even defaulting will fix a box or two each attempt.
The downside for crit glitching is so bad on this test that defaulting is not an option.  My char has a DP of 9 and that's about the minimum I would feel comfortable attempting with.  I'll be holding my breath on that 2nd leg with 8 dice.

Edge or buy hits.  You're looking at a 1 in 1,000 chance or so of a crit glitch.  Presuming Analytical Mind you're guaranteed to have Edge for the test.  And the rest of the group should be willing to spend 2 edge to get you 1 to save the Decker's deck from a 1 in a thousand chance when it pops up.

Or buy hits.  Downtime repair tests are exactly when buying hits should be used.  With 9 Dice you'll fix 2,2,1,1,1,1, total of 8 boxes without ever rolling. 

A lot of Deckers go an entire campaign without ever taking a single box of Matrix damage.  There just isn't any point to Matrix Combat most of the time.  You're looking at a 1 in a thousand chance of a crit glitch for some thing that only happens a couple times a campaign anyway, Edge should cover it.

Xenon

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« Reply #11 on: <10-10-20/1206:22> »
It's resolved as an extended test.

As you decide to continue to roll your pool get smaller and smaller. From the time you start rolling until the time you decide to stop rolling you only have one edge expenditure....

Hobbes

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« Reply #12 on: <10-10-20/1238:09> »
It's resolved as an extended test.

As you decide to continue to roll your pool get smaller and smaller. From the time you start rolling until the time you decide to stop rolling you only have one edge expenditure....

The odds of getting two critical glitches in an extended test are roughly 1 in a million.  This isn't a corner case, this is an outcome that likely won't happen to any Shadowrun player ever.  (Take Matrix Damage, and not able to buy hits on a repair check, and get and a 2nd 1 in 1,000 dice roll result on the same extended test)  And there is nothing forcing a character to keep making tests after the first critical glitch.  Just sayin', is all.  Multiple safety nets for the risk adverse.

Anyway, fear of bricking cyberdeck while repairing Matrix damage isn't a rational thing, it's an emotional thing.  No amount of numbers will persuade that.  Talk to the GM about simply buying hits for downtime repair tests. 

MercilessMing

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« Reply #13 on: <10-10-20/1556:43> »
Chance is higher on odd pools than even, yeah I got that wrong. Oops.

Like I said I don’t play with analytical mind :)
And if you allow edge to avoid glitches you may as well not play with glitches.