Vehicle defence pool [SR5]?

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  • Omae
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« on: <09-18-20/1104:01> »
Is it correctly understood that vehicles, including drones roll the following when defending in the meat world:

Dog brain : Pilot + unidentified autosoft [handling] (page 205 CRB)
Manual control : drivers reaction+intuition  (no limit?)
AR control: drivers reaction+intuition  (no limit?)
VR control: drivers reaction+intuition  (no limit?)
Jumped in ( also VR) : drivers reaction+intuition  (no limit?)

Or should the defence pool be dataprocessing instead of  reaction in VR/jymped in? or maybe Intuition+intuition?

Personally Im leaning towards the following (totally not RAW):

Dog brain : pilot×2
Manual control : drivers reaction+intuition 
AR control: drivers reaction+intuition
VR control: drivers intuition+intuition
Jumped in ( also VR) : drivers highest of  reaction or intuition+intuition


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  • Prime Runner
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« Reply #1 on: <09-19-20/0251:15> »
(no limit?)
In Shadowrun there is typically no limit unless you include a skill in the test. Which mean that attribute only tests (like evading in combat) does typically not have a limit. The Evasive Driving interrupt action let you add Intuition to defense tests in order to dodge attacks but since the test is still attribute only there will still not be a limit to this test.

Autosofts are often treated as a "skill", SR5 p. 269, so whenever pilot is using autosoft it typically also applies a limit (like Handling, Speed, Accuracy, Sensor...)

While not remote controlling over the matrix (for example driving manually or local autopilot is in control) the limit for Piloting is typically Handling (but during chase combat in a Speed Environment, SR5 p. 304, limit can also be Speed). During combat the limit is typically Accuracy (but a character can also use the vehicle’s Sensor Attribute to help with Gunnery in which Sensor becomes the limit, SR5 p. 184).

During remote control over the matrix (no matter if via AR, VR or jumped in) the limit is the normal limit for that action (No limit, Handling, Speed, Accuracy, Sensor etc) or Data Processing of the device you used to access the matrix with (whichever is lowest), SR5 p. 238.

VR control: drivers intuition+intuition
Jumped in ( also VR) : drivers highest of  reaction or intuition+intuition
While this is indeed a good house rule that I think you are not alone to use, in SR5 it have been clarified that you use the same attribute array no matter if you are in AR, VR or jumped in.

For evading this means: Reaction + Intuition
For piloting this means: Reaction
For sneaking this means: Agility
For drone mounted weapons this mean: Agility (default linked attribute, SR5p. 146)
For both sensor combat and vehicle mounted weapons this mean: Logic (explicit exceptions SR5 p. 184 + 183)

(IIRC it was explained with that you use the same motor reflex / reflex memory no matter if you are in your meat body or in VR... I don't have the citation in front of me)

Since this deliberately changed in SR6 you also might want to take some inspiration from there;
Evading while not in VR (AR or manual): Reaction + Intuition
Piloting while not in VR (AR or manual): Reaction
Evading while in VR (or jumped in): Intuition + Intuition
Piloting while in VR (or jumped in): Intuition
Gunnery (no matter if AR, VR or jumped in and no matter if Drone or Vehicle): Logic


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  • Omae
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« Reply #2 on: <09-19-20/1600:34> »
Ok, thanks.
Just wanted to make sure I hadnt missed anything.

Im looking to make it All slightly more intuitively. So you dont end Up with so many exceptions to the vehicle rules. Like: always use physical Attributes with control device-except sometimes  with Gunnery and sneaking.   (Pg 183, 270).
And a specific active skill is Limited by your piloting skill, but not other active skills (Pg. 184)
Always the lowest of your normal limit or data processing, except firing weapons (but not close Combat, like Ares duelist and its swords). (Pg. 238).

The last one is somewhat troublesome. As the control rig will boost your limits in the device you are jumped into.... But as it its still Limited by your data processing, it might not do anything.

And Im unsure how the +1/+2 limit on piloting in AR/VR (Pg. 201)  interacts with the control rig limit bonus. Would RAW mean that a control rig 1, only increased your limit by 1, while just going VR without the rig would increased it by 2. Or would it stack?

No matter. Youve already mentioned 6th edition. And thats also where I took some inspiration from. Sadly the 6th ed rigger section also had some pretty servere shortcomings in my opinion :(