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SR5 Decker-Protector

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Hanzo

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« on: <09-16-20/0334:43> »
Hi, fellow chummers!

I've been thinking about the concept of a decker-defender but I still cannot understand the way how a decker can protect devices of a party.

As I see it, the only way any decker can provide a protection is to drag-n-drop a device's icon into his own PAN. But... It's kinda very limited, only (DR*3) devices can be dragged. So if any anyone would like to attack the party sammy's comm the decker-defender can do little, as the sammy is in the AR himself to form PAN fro his own devices, and no PAN can be dragged into another PAN. Also no devie can be in two PANs at the same time.

Case 1: the sammy has a smartgun-smartlink pair. He wants to use all the wireless capabilities of this pair. he joins them in the matrix and send it to a party decker's PAN. But who will get the bonuses? And why?

Case2: The Sammy has his PAN under attack on an enemy-decker. As far as I understand noone but the sammy can find the attacker. So can the party decker only help with mere advices (like "dude, do a reboot divece") in this case?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #1 on: <09-16-20/0526:00> »
So my smartgun and smartlink have me as owner, they're connecting together so I get the bonus from the gun, because I'm using both the gun and the smartlink. Doesn't matter that they're in the Decker's PAN and being protected by the Decker. On the downside, I'm already costing the Decker 3 of their slots: My commlink, my smartgun, my smartlink. If I wanted to add earbuds, that'd be another. If my armor is smart, that's another. That's a good reason to get a form of full-body-armor with a helmet: The armor is 1 device, so my communication channels, my chemical seal, my smartlink, all are part of 1 device, the Armor. So that brings me down to 3 devices, 2 if I make the commlink part of my gun.

If the team has too many devices, then you indeed need to make the painful choice which devices are protected by the Decker directly, and which are simply on a PAN that we granted the Decker 3 Marks on.
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Hanzo

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« Reply #2 on: <09-16-20/0541:11> »
So my smartgun and smartlink have me as owner, they're connecting together so I get the bonus from the gun, because I'm using both the gun and the smartlink. Doesn't matter that they're in the Decker's PAN and being protected by the Decker. On the downside, I'm already costing the Decker 3 of their slots: My commlink, my smartgun, my smartlink. If I wanted to add earbuds, that'd be another. If my armor is smart, that's another. That's a good reason to get a form of full-body-armor with a helmet: The armor is 1 device, so my communication channels, my chemical seal, my smartlink, all are part of 1 device, the Armor. So that brings me down to 3 devices, 2 if I make the commlink part of my gun.

If the team has too many devices, then you indeed need to make the painful choice which devices are protected by the Decker directly, and which are simply on a PAN that we granted the Decker 3 Marks on.

What's the point of dragging someone's comm into a PAN? As soon as a Persona is formed on this comm, it will slip off the PAN. To control my own PAN I need to form my Persona in AR to interract with the Matrix Objects which is the PAN.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #3 on: <09-16-20/0630:15> »
The persona wouldn't be PAN-protected. The device still is. And I tend not to use detailed AR in combat.
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Hanzo

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« Reply #4 on: <09-16-20/0920:30> »
The persona wouldn't be PAN-protected. The device still is. And I tend not to use detailed AR in combat.

So you want to say that if I run my Persona in AR on my Transys Avalon my Persona doesn't get protection from my comm on which it's based and run on?

I assume that both my PAN and Persona are under protectection of my commlink.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #5 on: <09-16-20/1456:09> »
As far as I know, a Persona gets its stats from the device it's formed on, but it doesn't inherit from a Master.
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Xenon

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« Reply #6 on: <09-16-20/1533:29> »
I've been thinking about the concept of a decker-defender but I still cannot understand the way how a decker can protect devices of a party.
While the intent seem to be that deckers can protect their team from matrix threats, there are not many game mechanics in place to allow that to happen...



Case 1: the sammy has a smartgun-smartlink pair. He wants to use all the wireless capabilities of this pair.
Device getting wireless bonuses have nothing to do with if the device is part of a PAN (slaved to a cyberdeck, RCC or commlink) or if the device is part of a WAN (slaved to a host).

Getting wireless bonuses just require that the device is wireless enabled (in the case of a smartgun system both your smartgun and your smart goggles need to be wireless enabled while working in concert with DNI).

Slaving is not part of this equation.



Case2: The Sammy has his PAN under attack on an enemy-decker. As far as I understand noone but the sammy can find the attacker. So can the party decker only help with mere advices (like "dude, do a reboot divece") in this case?
Basically. Yes :-(

The decker can try to spot marks on the samurai's persona and devices and then try to erase them one by one. The decker may also turn his cyberdeck into a jammer which will add noise to any matrix actions the hostile hacker is attempting on any of the devices within 100 meters of the decker.

If your table is using advanced rules from Data Trails then the decker can also Trackback to the hostile hacker (but that is a procedure that takes at least 30 minutes to complete so...)



As far as I know, a Persona gets its stats from the device it's formed on, but it doesn't inherit from a Master.
My Transys Avalon would typically be the master device in my own personal area network.

It would typically also be the device I use to access the matrix with and that provide my matrix persona with matrix attributes (which I use whenever I take a matrix action).

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #7 on: <09-16-20/1612:18> »
I've been thinking about the concept of a decker-defender but I still cannot understand the way how a decker can protect devices of a party.
While the intent seem to be that deckers can protect their team from matrix threats, there are not many game mechanics in place to allow that to happen...

I'd just ditch the limit on # of devices for a PAN.  Boom: instant way for the team hacker to do matrix overwatch for the whole team.

You can STILL do it while observing the # of devices limit... but it's stupid.  Just buy dozens of commlinks and daisy chain the drek out of everything.

EDIT: NM that last bit... didn't notice this was a SR5 discussion. No daisy-chaining in SR5.


« Last Edit: <09-17-20/1027:43> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Xenon

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« Reply #8 on: <09-17-20/0152:46> »
Yes, if we are now also talking House Rules then I would suggest that the listed limit is being used for 'smarter' devices (such as Vehicles, Drones, Smart Firing Platforms etc) AND devices that are further away than 100 meters from you that you still wish to protect with your PAN.

And in addition to this I suggest that you can also slave an unlimited amount of devices within 100 meters from you.

If a team member want the protection of the team's decker then he or she can stay within 100 meters (adding more incentive to bring the decker on the site is a Good Thing IMO), or, allocate some of the decker's Device Rating x 3 slots.

But the team member also have the option to instead slave his or her devices to their own commlink. And for devices further away use their own Device Rating x 3 limit.

Another option is to have them stand alone, just defending for themselves (leaving undefended slaved devices might be used for a direct connection into your PAN so in many situations you might want to avoid that)