NEWS

Slip Streams is out

  • 64 Replies
  • 1529 Views

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 9627
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #60 on: <09-01-20/0338:00> »
Quickening is simply a cheaper version of other ways to keep the buffs active, with downside that it can be broken and cause a permanent loss of Karma. If that downside actually features, people will need to start weighing their options. If they never feature the downside and/or can hunt for those massive hits (which is why usually people mandate buying hits), it becomes overkill. Don't forget that to subtly quicken spells, you already need 3 Metamagics. The SR4 cost for quickening was way too high given the risk involved.

If, as a GM, you are sure you are not capable or willing of featuring the downsides of Quickening properly, just ban the metamagic from your game and save everyone a headache. The mages can still get sustaining Foci or Focused Concentration, take the penalty with Psyche, or have a Spirit sustain the spell on them for a while. If you are going to use dispell and wards well, then all you need is 'can only quicken spells that use bought hits' to prevent cheesy abuse.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Shinobi Killfist

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2586
« Reply #61 on: <09-05-20/1506:52> »
Quickening is simply a cheaper version of other ways to keep the buffs active, with downside that it can be broken and cause a permanent loss of Karma. If that downside actually features, people will need to start weighing their options. If they never feature the downside and/or can hunt for those massive hits (which is why usually people mandate buying hits), it becomes overkill. Don't forget that to subtly quicken spells, you already need 3 Metamagics. The SR4 cost for quickening was way too high given the risk involved.

If, as a GM, you are sure you are not capable or willing of featuring the downsides of Quickening properly, just ban the metamagic from your game and save everyone a headache. The mages can still get sustaining Foci or Focused Concentration, take the penalty with Psyche, or have a Spirit sustain the spell on them for a while. If you are going to use dispell and wards well, then all you need is 'can only quicken spells that use bought hits' to prevent cheesy abuse.

The info on the astral is pretty sparse right now.  I'm curious if even Focuses will be able to survive in the future.  You used to be able to break them from the astral i think through 3rd edition, not just grounding but astral attacks on them. I'm a big fan of it personally as I feel that it is needed to balance mages. The general rule used to be if you can't safely mask it you don't put karma into it. Surprise barriers/wards still might tank it though. TThis would make focused concentration even more attractive, which I am not sure is good. I'm not sure I'd suggest that kind of stuff for missions though, the variety of GMs might set up false expectations. As long as you know its a risk, its a choice you make.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 3929
« Reply #62 on: <09-05-20/1544:44> »
Quickening is simply a cheaper version of other ways to keep the buffs active, with downside that it can be broken and cause a permanent loss of Karma. If that downside actually features, people will need to start weighing their options. If they never feature the downside and/or can hunt for those massive hits (which is why usually people mandate buying hits), it becomes overkill. Don't forget that to subtly quicken spells, you already need 3 Metamagics. The SR4 cost for quickening was way too high given the risk involved.

If, as a GM, you are sure you are not capable or willing of featuring the downsides of Quickening properly, just ban the metamagic from your game and save everyone a headache. The mages can still get sustaining Foci or Focused Concentration, take the penalty with Psyche, or have a Spirit sustain the spell on them for a while. If you are going to use dispell and wards well, then all you need is 'can only quicken spells that use bought hits' to prevent cheesy abuse.

The info on the astral is pretty sparse right now.  I'm curious if even Focuses will be able to survive in the future.  You used to be able to break them from the astral i think through 3rd edition, not just grounding but astral attacks on them. I'm a big fan of it personally as I feel that it is needed to balance mages. The general rule used to be if you can't safely mask it you don't put karma into it. Surprise barriers/wards still might tank it though. TThis would make focused concentration even more attractive, which I am not sure is good. I'm not sure I'd suggest that kind of stuff for missions though, the variety of GMs might set up false expectations. As long as you know its a risk, its a choice you make.

There's actually no reason you can't just target the astral forms of spells/foci with astral combat or combat mana spells, even in 5E.  5E just never explained what happened if you did.  Of course, neither does 6e.
« Last Edit: <09-05-20/1604:18> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 9627
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #63 on: <09-05-20/1638:58> »
There's specific ways to target spells and foci from the astral, so I wouldn't let you use simpler unspecified ways instead.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Shinobi Killfist

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2586
« Reply #64 on: <09-05-20/1907:32> »
Quickening is simply a cheaper version of other ways to keep the buffs active, with downside that it can be broken and cause a permanent loss of Karma. If that downside actually features, people will need to start weighing their options. If they never feature the downside and/or can hunt for those massive hits (which is why usually people mandate buying hits), it becomes overkill. Don't forget that to subtly quicken spells, you already need 3 Metamagics. The SR4 cost for quickening was way too high given the risk involved.

If, as a GM, you are sure you are not capable or willing of featuring the downsides of Quickening properly, just ban the metamagic from your game and save everyone a headache. The mages can still get sustaining Foci or Focused Concentration, take the penalty with Psyche, or have a Spirit sustain the spell on them for a while. If you are going to use dispell and wards well, then all you need is 'can only quicken spells that use bought hits' to prevent cheesy abuse.

The info on the astral is pretty sparse right now.  I'm curious if even Focuses will be able to survive in the future.  You used to be able to break them from the astral i think through 3rd edition, not just grounding but astral attacks on them. I'm a big fan of it personally as I feel that it is needed to balance mages. The general rule used to be if you can't safely mask it you don't put karma into it. Surprise barriers/wards still might tank it though. TThis would make focused concentration even more attractive, which I am not sure is good. I'm not sure I'd suggest that kind of stuff for missions though, the variety of GMs might set up false expectations. As long as you know its a risk, its a choice you make.

There's actually no reason you can't just target the astral forms of spells/foci with astral combat or combat mana spells, even in 5E.  5E just never explained what happened if you did.  Of course, neither does 6e.

Yeah I can't remember if 4e had an answer to what happened if you did either. I know 1e-2e did, I'm fairly certain 3e did. And the answer to that is a pretty big thing, especially in a setting where magical security is frequently a mage showing up on the astral to see what triggered their ward or alerted their spirit. With no explanation on how it works the implication is it doesn't.  Logically you should just be able to astrally punch it if you wanted to, its a astral form attack it. It used to be focuses resisted attacks like wards did at forcex2. But I haven;t see anything about that in at least 2 editions. Personally I'd like it back as I think focuses should be risky. But I'm old and still wish they had kept grounding, just changing it so the only thing hurt by it was the focus(or spirit) and the person it was linked to.