NEWS

SR6 Spirits and Summoner Stun Damage Incapacitation

  • 3 Replies
  • 161 Views

markelphoenix

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 595
« on: <08-21-20/1657:46> »
So, what happens if a summoner is incapacitated via Stun damage? I assumed it was similar to what happens if they get incapacitated by drain during summoning, but am having trouble finding that.

Do spirits disappear if summoner is brought unconscious due to stun?
Do spirits disappear when summoner is in physical overflow?
Do spirits disappear when summoner dies?

Trying to find a definitive answer in the CRB to these questions.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 4029
« Reply #1 on: <08-21-20/1706:49> »
From a RAW point of view: nothing happens with respect to the summoner and spirit.  6e didn't include rules/fluff this time around that spirits go free if the summoner is unconscious or asleep.  And it might be a deliberate change, rather than something (Potentially among many other things) that got assumed but went unsaid for the CRB.  It's absolutely a deliberate change that spirits stick around longer, and that you can have more than one at a time.  So I'd be leery to say that the spirit gets to go free if the drain knocks out (or even kills) the summoner just because "that's how it used to work in previous editions."


This time around, nothing says going unconscious or dead from the drain will invalidate the result of the opposed summoning test. (a parallel to the spellcasting rules.. if you kill yourself casting a global fireball, it still goes off...)  Ergo if you succeeded with X hits, then the spirit is on your hook until one sunrise and one sunset has passed... whether you issued any orders or not, and whatever your state may be until then.  If you got knocked out or killed by the drain, the spirit gets about a day's vacation away from the metaplanes without having to fulfil any annoying orders... until such time you happen to recover and start ordering the Spirit around at any rate...


Edit: And yes, it does appear that this time around, technically nothing says that geeking the mage makes the spirit he sic'd on you go away.
« Last Edit: <08-21-20/1713:39> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

markelphoenix

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 595
« Reply #2 on: <08-21-20/1717:02> »
From a RAW point of view: nothing happens with respect to the summoner and spirit.  6e didn't include rules/fluff this time around that spirits go free if the summoner is unconscious or asleep.  And it might be a deliberate change, rather than something (Potentially among many other things) that got assumed but went unsaid for the CRB.  It's absolutely a deliberate change that spirits stick around longer, and that you can have more than one at a time.  So I'd be leery to say that the spirit gets to go free if the drain knocks out (or even kills) the summoner just because "that's how it used to work in previous editions."


This time around, nothing says going unconscious or dead from the drain will invalidate the result of the opposed summoning test. (a parallel to the spellcasting rules.. if you kill yourself casting a global fireball, it still goes off...)  Ergo if you succeeded with X hits, then the spirit is on your hook until one sunrise and one sunset has passed... whether you issued any orders or not, and whatever your state may be until then.  If you got knocked out or killed by the drain, the spirit gets about a day's vacation away from the metaplanes without having to fulfil any annoying orders... until such time you happen to recover and start ordering the Spirit around at any rate...


Edit: And yes, it does appear that this time around, technically nothing says that geeking the mage makes the spirit he sic'd on you go away.

pg146 crb
Quote
his is Stun damage unless it is higher than the character’s Magic rank, in which case it is Physical. if the drain is enough to make the summoner un-conscious, the spirit returns to its home metaplane.

Outside of summoning, do agree there is no mention of them disappearing on summoner death or loss of consciousness in strictest RAW, question is, does the summoning blurb provide a glimpse at RAI?

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 4029
« Reply #3 on: <08-21-20/1726:06> »
From a RAW point of view: nothing happens with respect to the summoner and spirit.  6e didn't include rules/fluff this time around that spirits go free if the summoner is unconscious or asleep.  And it might be a deliberate change, rather than something (Potentially among many other things) that got assumed but went unsaid for the CRB.  It's absolutely a deliberate change that spirits stick around longer, and that you can have more than one at a time.  So I'd be leery to say that the spirit gets to go free if the drain knocks out (or even kills) the summoner just because "that's how it used to work in previous editions."


This time around, nothing says going unconscious or dead from the drain will invalidate the result of the opposed summoning test. (a parallel to the spellcasting rules.. if you kill yourself casting a global fireball, it still goes off...)  Ergo if you succeeded with X hits, then the spirit is on your hook until one sunrise and one sunset has passed... whether you issued any orders or not, and whatever your state may be until then.  If you got knocked out or killed by the drain, the spirit gets about a day's vacation away from the metaplanes without having to fulfil any annoying orders... until such time you happen to recover and start ordering the Spirit around at any rate...


Edit: And yes, it does appear that this time around, technically nothing says that geeking the mage makes the spirit he sic'd on you go away.

pg146 crb
Quote
his is Stun damage unless it is higher than the character’s Magic rank, in which case it is Physical. if the drain is enough to make the summoner un-conscious, the spirit returns to its home metaplane.

Outside of summoning, do agree there is no mention of them disappearing on summoner death or loss of consciousness in strictest RAW, question is, does the summoning blurb provide a glimpse at RAI?

Ah, good catch.  I was sure the RAI at least was that getting KO'd should invalidate the summoning... but hadn't noticed it saying so.  Good find.  And yes with that rule intact, it's probably the best practice to keep the prior editions' precedent and say that geeking the mage WOULD still make his spirit attack dog fwoop.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.