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[6E] Alita Redux

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Aria

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« on: <08-18-20/0751:20> »
Following the release of Firing Squad and it being pointed out that two fairly fundamental things needed changing (stolen gear costing karma rather than giving it, like ‘in debt’ and that a cyber torso probably needs Strength and Agility adding to it as limbs do or those expensive limbs will only function at Rt 2) I’ve redone my SR5 character “Lily” again.  That karma drop has left her a little weaker than before but I am still reasonably pleased with the output… that said I’m always happy to hear what others think and suggest to tweak char gen to get a solid character.

She’s not the most tanky or speedy but I think she still makes a good combat specialist…!?

As an aside, buying off stolen gear with karma…presumably that is double the original karma spent as if buying off a normal negative quality?  Reasonably expensive way to get starting nuyen then but I prefer this interpretation so I’m not complaining.

Character Background etc can be found here for anyone interested: Lily

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Name & Principle Alias Project Javelin ''Lily''                  


                  
Ethnicity & Metatype Caucasian Cyborg                  
                  
Born Unknown Sex Female Height Small  Build Slight                  
Nationality None                  
"Description   Javelin is a beautifully crafted marvel of cybernetic engineering, each piece of her sleek cybernetic frame decorated with subtle engravings that compliment her fine human features. She has dark hair and large silvery grey cybereyes that have seen too much in their very short life.

To avoid the ongoing pursuit of her makers she has recently commissioned a new body, every bit as fine as the first but now in advanced, skin toned, polymers and resins rather than her previous grey metal combat frame"                  
                  
Race D Attributes B Magic E Skills C Resources A                  
                  
Attributes                  
                  
Body:   3   (   3   )      
Agility:   5   (   9   )      
Reaction:   6   (   7   )      
Strength:   1   (   5   )      
Willpower:   3   (   3   )      
Logic:   2   (   2   )      
Intuition:   4   (   4   )      
Charisma:   3   (   3   )      
Edge:   5               
Magic/Resonance:   0               
Essence:   0.04               
Initiative:   11+2D6               
Matrix VR Initiative:   5+2D6      +1D6 HotSIM         
                  
Phys CM:   15               
Stun CM:   10               
                  
Surprise:   11               
Composure:   6               
Judge Intentions:   7               
Memory:   5               
Lift/Carry:   250kgs               
                  
Defence Rating   15               
Bonus D Damage Res   0               
                  
Qualities / Racial Bonuses                  
                  
Ambidextrous   4               
Ars Cybernetica [Iron Limbs]   7               
Ars Cybernetica [Kick Attack]   5               
Bushido   -10               
Candle in the Darkness   5               
Impaired: Body   -8               
Stolen Gear 18   0               
Uneducated   -6               
                  
Skills                  
                  
Athletics   5   (   14   )      
Biotech   0   (   /   )      
Close Combat   6   (   15   )      
Con   0   (   2   )      
Cracking   0   (   /   )      
Electronics   0   (   1   )      
Engineering   0   (   1   )      
Exotic Weapons   0   (   /   )      
Firearms   3   (   12   )      
Influence   0   (   2   )      
Outdoors   0   (   3   )      
Perception   3   (   7   )      
Piloting   0   (   6   )      
Stealth   3   (   12   )      
                  
Knowledge / Language Skills                  
                  
English                  
Transhumanism                  
Seattle Shadows                  
                  
Cyber & Bioware                  
                  
Datajack [β] 0.07                  
Cybereyes [4β] 0.28 w. Image Link, Camera, Flare Compensation, Lowlight & Thermo Vision, Vision Enhancement, Vision Magnification, Smartlink                  
Cyberears [3α] 0.24 w. Soundlink, Damper, Balance Augmenter                  
4x obvious limbs & torso [α] 4.4, Limbs Str 5, Agi 9, Armour 1 to arms, 3 to legs (+8DR) +5 Condition monitor      
L Hand Shock Limb [α] 0   [4S(e), 10/—/—/—/—]                   
Legs Hardened [α] 0  [5P*, 11/—/—/—/—] * incl Kick Attack                  
Hydraulic Jacks [6α] 0                  
Internal Air Tank [1β] 0.18                  
Wired Reflexes [1α] 0.8                  
                  
Gear                  
                  
Ares Light Fire 70 [2P, SA, 10/7/6/—/—, 16(c)] w. Laser Sight, Special Silencer, Concealable Holster, 2 Spare Clips, 50 Caseless Normal Rnds                  
Ares Predator VI [3P, SA/BF, 10/10/8/—/—, 15(c)] w. Integral Smartgun, Silencer, Concealable Holster, 2 Spare Clips, 30 Caseless Normal Rnds, 20 Caseless Explosive Rnds, 10 Caseless APDS Rnds, 10 Caseless SnS Rnds (Clip load 10 Normal, 2 Explosive, 2 APDS, 1 SnS)                  
3 Thermal Smoke, 2 Flashbangs, 1 CS Gas Grenade, 2 Glitter Grenades                  
                  
Micro Transceiver & Subvocal Mic, Metalink Disposable Commlink [R1, D/F 1/0, P0], Fake SIN [1] , Fake Licence [1], Trodes, AR Gloves, Local Area Mapsoft                  
Respirator [6], Lowlight Flashlight, Bug Scanner, Tag Eraser, 10x Plastic Restraints, Medkit, 2x Stim Patch [4], Trauma Patch, 2x Tranq Patch [6], Survival Kit, Weapon Cleaning Kit                  
Fake SIN [4], 3x Fake Licence [4] w. Driver, Weapon, Concealed Carry                  
                  
Lined Coat [3] w. Electrochromic Modification, Chemical Protection [3]                  
Securetech SkinShield [2] w. Concealed Holster, Ruthenium [2], Electrical Resistance [2]               
Racing Helmet [+1] w. HUD Image Link, Flare Compensation, Laser Range Finder, Trodes                                 
2x Shiawase Kanmushi [H2/3, A4, I5, Sp15, B0, A0, P3, S2] w. Gecko tips, Lowlight Camera, Audio Enhancement, 1x Sikorsky-Bell Microskimmer XXS [H2, A6, I10, Sp35, B0, A0, P2, S1], 10x MCT Gnat  [H3, A4, I10, Sp30, B0, A0, P2, S1] w. 10 Sensor Tags w. Lowlight Micro Cameras                  
                  
Lifestyle                  
                  
1mnth Low Lifestyle                  
                  
Karma Expenditure                  
                  
Racial Costs   0               
Qualities   9               
Negative Qualities   -24               
Attributes   35               
Skills   0               
Resources   0               
Stolen Gear   18               
Martial Arts   12               
Buy off negative Qualities   0
Excel Cha Generators <<CG5.26>> & <CG6.xx> v11

Lormyr

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« Reply #1 on: <08-18-20/0812:43> »
As an aside, buying off stolen gear with karma…presumably that is double the original karma spent as if buying off a normal negative quality?  Reasonably expensive way to get starting nuyen then but I prefer this interpretation so I’m not complaining.

I see nothing written that should make it not work normally for buying off a negative quality. Even that would be vastly superior math than Working for the Man, which should probably be addressed.

36 Karma into Working for the Man would cost you 8 major downtime actions and get you 72,000Y. Or start with that negative quality, spend 36 Karma and no downtime actions, and get 180,000Y and free up the used quality slot.

Lolsy for sure.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Hobbes

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« Reply #2 on: <08-18-20/0941:00> »
Well, Stolen Gear does have the additional downside of the damage your character is carting around (Missions) or the occasional beat down (Home games).  That's non-trivial, so it isn't quite fair to compare "just" the Karma to Nuyen ratio. 

Stolen Gear is still totally out of whack, but it shouldn't be compared straight up to Working for the Man or In Debt as it has additional RAW down sides.  (In and out of Missions play).

Hobbes

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« Reply #3 on: <08-18-20/0954:28> »
And from a min/max perspective, I really prefer Crossbows for melee characters.  Lets you re-allocate the Firearms skill points and Crossbows with Narcoject are damn fine back up weapons.  Or go with Throwing weapons, but those have much less range than Crossbows.

If guns are a flavor choice though, rock on. 

I'd try and get one more level or Wired or any other +1d6.  Getting that second Major Action per turn is a big deal for Combat builds.  Drop Wired and go with Jazz?  Pick up a couple more levels of Stolen gear and shuffle Nuyen around and pick up Level 2 Synaptic Boost?  Not sure you can carve the Essene out to get to Wired 2.  Beta maybe.

Lormyr

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« Reply #4 on: <08-18-20/1000:14> »
Well, Stolen Gear does have the additional downside of the damage your character is carting around (Missions) or the occasional beat down (Home games).  That's non-trivial, so it isn't quite fair to compare "just" the Karma to Nuyen ratio. 

Stolen Gear is still totally out of whack, but it shouldn't be compared straight up to Working for the Man or In Debt as it has additional RAW down sides.  (In and out of Missions play).

You're totally right. That said, if you are playing Missions and your long term plans are to maximize money for your build (no idea why with the availability rules. . .), starting with the quality and later buying it off is the best karma to money ratio available.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Aria

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« Reply #5 on: <08-18-20/1254:07> »
And from a min/max perspective, I really prefer Crossbows for melee characters.  Lets you re-allocate the Firearms skill points and Crossbows with Narcoject are damn fine back up weapons.  Or go with Throwing weapons, but those have much less range than Crossbows.

If guns are a flavor choice though, rock on. 

I'd try and get one more level or Wired or any other +1d6.  Getting that second Major Action per turn is a big deal for Combat builds.  Drop Wired and go with Jazz?  Pick up a couple more levels of Stolen gear and shuffle Nuyen around and pick up Level 2 Synaptic Boost?  Not sure you can carve the Essene out to get to Wired 2.  Beta maybe.
Yeah, guns are purely secondary flavour, and no reason not to pick up a crossbow too. Specialisation would be a first karma priority!

I had a tinker around, wired 2 is far to essence hungry, synaptic 2 is expensive at 190K... I can do it but at the expense of agility and strength boosts on the limbs and all the armour! Can’t decide if the trade off is worth it... probably is because upgrading the limbs post char gen is going to be much much easier than getting the booster.

Not keen on situational mods like drugs, plus I’m not sure it gels well with Candle in the Darkness  ::)

Of course I can hope that we get the quality that gives essence discount on ware once the cyber book is released... until then...
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Lormyr

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« Reply #6 on: <08-18-20/1319:59> »
Now my thoughts on this may change if / when extensive play occurs, but my just eyeing the rules gut check says that the only characters that really need to worry about titanic Initiative and/or 2 major actions are alpha strike builds so good they can end a whole encounter with those actions and before they are threatened if they go first.

Chaotic world builds, grenade builds, things like that. Combat spells are pretty much trash now outside of corner cases where direct is nice (especially compared to just spending 100Y for a grenade), but AoE chaos, control thoughts, control actions, ect. will still completely shut an entire battle down if rolled well. Illusion and Manipulation is where the offense is at currently.
« Last Edit: <08-18-20/1325:41> by Lormyr »
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Aria

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« Reply #7 on: <08-18-20/1346:43> »
Maybe leave synaptic as an end goal then, to replace an essence hole by removing the wired reflexes :)

I tend to agree that reflexes are slightly less important in 6 than they were in 5. Still a priority for combat builds but maybe Lily can live without them for now...
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Hobbes

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« Reply #8 on: <08-18-20/1417:13> »
I'll grant you a rolling artillery barrage is the way to go if all you need to do is put bodies on the floor. 

When that particular option is contra indicated, combat characters making 2 Major actions a round are pretty much twice as good as combat characters taking one major action a round.  If you can get +3d6 an Anticipation build can put 10ish dice of 8P into 4 targets, and follow up with a few less dice from an FA attack into wounded.  Melee builds could do similar on indoor maps, once they get into position.     

But even just two Major actions a turn is two attacks per turn vs. one.  That's pretty significant IMO.   

Aria

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« Reply #9 on: <08-18-20/1612:14> »
Hmmm, will play some more, see if I can retain the agility but dump the strength temporarily. Will take a hit on AR but actions might be worth it
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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #10 on: <08-18-20/1827:57> »
My hot take. Reflexes are more important this edition. They are more important than they were since 3e. It’s a rare fight my speed characters use more than 2 passes in 3e-5e. Frequently they don’t even get their second pass. Everyone is already dead. 6e. I get to use both my 5e effective passes when I go. Less passes but I get them all upfront.  No loss of passes.

Finstersang

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« Reply #11 on: <08-18-20/1859:56> »
First of all: Props for doing a Full-Body-Cyborg built, it´s a rare sight these days  8)

About the Wired Reflexes question: They definetely still are a staple in 6th Edition and also quite fitting for an Alita-themed Character, but sometimes there´s just a price to pay for all the other augmentations. You could even consider to ditch the Rating 1 Wired reflexes and supplement them with combat drugs (Cram or Jazz) until you can afford a less invasive ID Boost. However, I wouldn´t say that the real value only comes with Rating 2 and the second attack: A rating 1 enhancement will still get you a better chance to go first and that additional  Minor Action can still be used for defensive Actions, Take Aim, reloading, cover... Probably most relevant for you, both flavour-wise and mechanically: Cyberware redlining also requires a Minor Action!

Second note: The additional 5 Boxes on your damage track are not be underestimated! They are even better if you also have ways to mitigate Damage modifiers. If you ditch the Reflexes or open up some Essence and money in another way, consider Damage Compensators or even a Pain Editor. It´s a little bit more Robocop and a little less Alita, though  ;)

Third: The current RAW effects of Hydraulik Jacks are quite... meh. Mostly due to the lack "regular" jumping rules as a benchmmark, but the effect itself seems also very underwhelming, considering the price and the investment. RAW, these won´t help enable you to perform superhuman stunts, it´s more like jumping slightly higher or farther. That´s not me trying to discourage you take them, though! They are thematically fitting and theoretically, quite cool. Talk to your GM on how jumps (both natural and "jacked") are handled at the table and make sure to mention that these bad boys already cost you 36.000 Nuyen and 6 capacity in each leg. With a decent houserule or some good ol´ GM handwaving, you might get more for your buck than a few additional centimeters on a jump  ::) 
« Last Edit: <08-18-20/1919:08> by Finstersang »
"Firing Line adds a ton of Perks that modify Attack and Defense ratings"

"Cool, does this mean that the whole AR/DR comparison has a bigger impact now?"

"Haha No :D"

Aria

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« Reply #12 on: <08-19-20/0825:12> »
Thanks for the feedback all!  I've updated the version on OP here: Lily

Squeezed Synaptic Booster 2 at the expense of the Str and Armour boosts on the limbs, can work up to those during play (this is a long standing character with a significant amount of karma to bring over from SR5  so won't take long but wanted to establish the base first).  A bit of cheese with Impaired Str and I manged to get the High Pain Tolerance quality.  No space in 0.06 essence for anything else unless new qualities become available in the cyber book.

Re hydraulic jacks, yeah, we play those 'rule of cool' rather than RAW so anime jumps abound :D
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Hobbes

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« Reply #13 on: <08-19-20/0843:34> »


Re hydraulic jacks, yeah, we play those 'rule of cool' rather than RAW so anime jumps abound :D

Check out the Martial Arts technique Rolling Clouds on p. 105 I think.  What goes up must come down.