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SR6 Pure Mysadept

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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #15 on: <08-16-20/1647:28> »
So SSDR, let me preface by saying that I agree that I do not believe it is intended for Mystic Adepts to gain PP from raising magic, nor do I believe that allowing that would be a good move balance wise. We're 100% on the same page in terms of end result.

That said, I do have to say that legalese is very flimsy at best, for two primary reasons.

1. Much like SR5, mystic adepts can still take anything a regular adept can, with the primary difference in the archetypes on the adept side being the different formulas for how they generate their power points.

I don't see how that's a flaw, when that IS the crucial difference between the two.  On one hand, Adepts can't EVER conjure or spellcast.  On the other, Mystic Adepts don't gain as many PPs.  This doesn't seem like it should be as hard as it's being made...

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Since the SR6 CRB doesn't differentiate that in any way, only having a how power points are gained section under adept powers (which applies to both), it is only reasonable to operate with the understanding that section applies to both.

On the benefit of the doubt that you didn't read what I edited upthread... I'll restate it and try to be more succinct this time around:
Page 158 says that Mystic Adepts can SPEND PPs in the same way as Adepts.  Not that they GAIN them in the same ways.

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2. You say that adept no longer equals mystic adept, and that is totally fine if that is the intent, but I think you will also realize that is at best very poorly and at worse not at all pointed out anywhere. The current language is not clear from either a change blindness from earlier editions or brand spanking new to the brand reading.

I'd say that inertia is CAUSING the problem, not making one blind to it.  If "adept" simply weren't in the Mystic Adept name, would we even be having this conversation?  The only reason "adept" is in the name is due to reasons that predate this edition.


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Again though, I agree with the intent of your reading. We just need the language cleared up significantly so it actually says that.

You have no idea how much I wish I could just reach out and fix shit that needs fixing.

Of course, given my own personal tastes, I'm sure not everyone would appreciate King SSDR "fixing" Shadowrun.   So for all the problems with "rule by committee", it's probably less bad than the alternatives ;D

« Last Edit: <08-16-20/1650:41> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

markelphoenix

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« Reply #16 on: <08-16-20/1648:25> »
I told you the intent is that Mystic Adepts can indeed bond Qi Foci and gain PPs via the Power Point initiation.

I've also told you that's the ONLY ways they can gain PPs (aside from picking a higher pick in chargen, up to A).  This is the part you seem to have a problem agreeing with.

It is. Because, if adept only/specific rules apply to Mystic Adepts for Qi Foci and Metamagic, then it doesn't make sense that the Power Point rules don't post chargen.

I am basically agreeing with Lormyr on the ambiguity. I am also holding position that Post-Chargen magic raise not raising PP is inconsistent with interpretation of Qi Foci and Metamagic can be used by Mystic Adepts. If anything post chargen with adept applies to Mystic Adepts, then it should consistently apply. There is no RAW Post-Chargen stating otherwise. One would assume that it would be explicit in the Adept PP section if it was intended to be such a limit.

markelphoenix

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« Reply #17 on: <08-16-20/1650:30> »
Pg. 158, you reference Mystic Adepts and how they gain power points...note how it starts
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At character creation,....

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #18 on: <08-16-20/1653:55> »
Ok, I'm done.  I agree with you that it needs more cleaning up, and I doubt that I'm less frustrated than you are about the ambiguity, STILL after it having been "fixed" in errata.

But take it or leave it... I'm telling you with complete certainty that this is the intent:

Mystic Adepts never gain PPs when their MAG goes up.

Mystic Adepts CAN gain PPs by picking the Power Point metamagic.

Mystic Adepts CAN bond Qi Foci.

Mystic Adepts never gain any PPs in any other way (of course, as of this posting only the CRB covers this, so who knows what the magic book may bring)


And with that, I'm done with the thread.  Go back to talking about your character specifically, I've derailed you long enough ;)
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Lormyr

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« Reply #19 on: <08-16-20/1658:33> »
I don't see how that's a flaw, when that IS the crucial difference between the two.  On one hand, Adepts can't EVER conjure or spellcast.  On the other, Mystic Adepts don't gain as many PPs.  This doesn't seem like it should be as hard as it's being made...

Oh, it is not a flaw at all. All I meant by that line is knowing that I can see how it leads to the same/same confusion between acquiring power points for the two different archetypes.

On the benefit of the doubt that you didn't read what I edited upthread... I'll restate it and try to be more succinct this time around:
Page 158 says that Mystic Adepts can SPEND PPs in the same way as Adepts.  Not that they GAIN them in the same ways.

Right. And while that could be read clearly as to the intent, my point is simple, basic phrasing just fixes all the issues. SR5 errata stated it very plainly.

POWER POINTS AND MAGIC CLARIFICATION
(P. 279, POWER POINTS PARAGRAPH)
Change to following sentence: “You get a free Power Point
whenever you increase your Magic attribute, and you can gain
a Power Point through Initiation (p. 324) instead of gaining
a metamagic.” To: “If you’re an adept, you get a free Power
Point whenever you increase your Magic attribute (though this
doesn’t apply to mystic adepts, and you can gain a Power Point
through Initiation
(p. 324) instead of gaining a metamagic.

Something that simple would solve the whole problem is all I am getting at.
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