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Lolsy Missions Build

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Lormyr

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« Reply #30 on: <08-15-20/1950:28> »
Fro the strength to weight discussion, the only way the new system makes any sense is if you visualize the strength as their output past their ability to move.  So a 1 strength troll is technically stronger than a 1 strength human in that they move a 600 pound frame, but they still bench the same.  now personally I think the new metatype system is terrible due to this and other changes, but ships have sailed or whatever.

100%. We call attention to what doesn't make sense, and work with what we got after the dust settles. Even being able to be an ork or troll with a strength of 1 completely defies logic, but there it is.

I know this is not a terribly desirable trait, but I legitimately gain joy out of making builds around the busted/nonsensical/bad rules to play them, to highlight why the shit needs changed. There is a 100% chance I will have a grenade abuse PC at some point, because explosive damage is my #1 bullseye at present.
« Last Edit: <08-15-20/1952:18> by Lormyr »
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #31 on: <08-15-20/2051:32> »
Fro the strength to weight discussion, the only way the new system makes any sense is if you visualize the strength as their output past their ability to move.  So a 1 strength troll is technically stronger than a 1 strength human in that they move a 600 pound frame, but they still bench the same.  now personally I think the new metatype system is terrible due to this and other changes, but ships have sailed or whatever.

100%. We call attention to what doesn't make sense, and work with what we got after the dust settles. Even being able to be an ork or troll with a strength of 1 completely defies logic, but there it is.

I know this is not a terribly desirable trait, but I legitimately gain joy out of making builds around the busted/nonsensical/bad rules to play them, to highlight why the shit needs changed. There is a 100% chance I will have a grenade abuse PC at some point, because explosive damage is my #1 bullseye at present.

I frequently build the same way if we are talking missions.  Outside of missions with friends well I usually GM but if not I try to make a character that fits the group. I'm been mocking the 9 body 1 strength troll from the get go, its a terrible rule for the setting. Some 8 foot monster with a 1 strength just doesn't fit, a super skinny and tiny troll is going to be 350 pounds. Like, I get the desire to make all metas viable at all priories.  But, this wasn't the way.  Personally if you needed to stick with priority I think they should have ditched the meta column.  Pick your race, each one has its starting stats and abilities, and different starting Karmas. Like Trolls have 50 starting karma, humans 100. Until they come out with the book with different character creation methods people are kind of stuck with it though. And even after that missions people may be stuck with it for a bit longer.

 But grenades are the clear mechanical winner in bad rules.

Lormyr

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« Reply #32 on: <08-17-20/1129:11> »
I frequently build the same way if we are talking missions.  Outside of missions with friends well I usually GM but if not I try to make a character that fits the group. I'm been mocking the 9 body 1 strength troll from the get go, its a terrible rule for the setting. Some 8 foot monster with a 1 strength just doesn't fit, a super skinny and tiny troll is going to be 350 pounds. Like, I get the desire to make all metas viable at all priories.  But, this wasn't the way.  Personally if you needed to stick with priority I think they should have ditched the meta column.  Pick your race, each one has its starting stats and abilities, and different starting Karmas. Like Trolls have 50 starting karma, humans 100. Until they come out with the book with different character creation methods people are kind of stuck with it though. And even after that missions people may be stuck with it for a bit longer.

But grenades are the clear mechanical winner in bad rules.

I pretty much agree to all of that. I get what they were going for, and it's not a bad idea, it just would have benefited from a more sensical implementation.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Lormyr

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« Reply #33 on: <08-17-20/1132:47> »
I have decided to run Fat Larry for my first character because the build/rp elements just amuse me so much. This is the final version I'm going to go with once Minotaur's are released into the wild, with the possibility of switching the Con Specialization to Disguise for keeping the GelWeave in the Security Armor better hidden. Need to spend about 17k more money though, and nothing jumps out to me as a particularly awesome idea. Any thoughts?

Fat Larry

Priorities:
Attributes A (24 points)
Metatype B (Minotaur, 11 points)
Skills C (20 points)
Magic D (Adept, 1 Magic)
Resources E (8,000Y)

Attributes:
Body 11 (15)
Agility 1
Reaction 1
Strength 1
Willpower 6
Logic 5
Intuition 6
Charisma 4

Edge 4
Essence 3.07
Magic 3

Derived Attributes:
Composure: 10
Judge Intentions: 12
Memory: 11
Initiative/Actions: 7 + 1d6/1 Major, 2 Minor
Condition Monitor (P/S): 16/11
Defense Rating: 21 (14 if only in Armante Suit)
Defense Test: 13
Damage Resistance Test: 15 (w/all incoming DV -5; reduce damage taken after test by 1, minimum 1)
Movement: 10/15/+1 (8/11/+1 in Security Armor)

Skills:
Athletics 7 ( 8 ) (Archery +2)
Con 5 (Fast Talk+2)
Influence 5 (Negotiation +2)
Perception 3

Qualities:
Aptitude (Athletics), -12 Karma
Built Tough 2, free
Exceptional Attribute (Body), -12 Karma
Exceptional Attribute (Intuition), -12 Karma
Exceptional Attribute (Willpower), -12 Karma
Goring Horns, free
Thermographic Vision, free

Allergy (Soy, Extreme), +20 Karma
Stolen Gear, +20 Karma

Adept Powers:
Combat Sense 6

Ware: (Essence -2.93, 93,390Y)
Bone Density Augmentation (Alphaware; Essence -0.96, 26,400Y)
Pain Editor (Used; Essence -0.33, 26,400Y)
Platelet Factories (Used; Essence -0.22, 9,350Y)
Reflex Recorder (Athletics) (Essence -0.1, 15,400Y)
Toxin Extractor 6 (Used; Essence -1.32, 15,840Y)

Gear: (34,760Y)
Commlink, Erika Elite (2,750Y)
Credstick, Platinum (550Y)
Fake SIN, rating 6 (16,500Y)
   Armor License, rating 6 (1,320Y)
   Bow Hunting License, rating 6 (1,320Y)
   Grenade License, rating 6 (1,320Y)
   Skilled Trade License (Pharmacist, Drugs and Toxins), rating 6 (1,320Y)
   Weapon Modification License, rating 6 (1,320Y)
Jazz x20 (1,650Y)
Psyche x20 (4,400Y)
Trenchcoat (110Y)

Lifestyle, Low (1 month; 2,200Y)

22,056Y

Armor: (50,490Y)
Armante Suit (5,500Y)
Helmet (3,740Y)
   Sensors: Single Sensor (Ultrasound)
   Visual Enhancements: Flare Compensation, Smartlink, Vision Magnification, Ultrasound Link
Securetech Invisi-Shield Armor (5,500Y)
Security Armor (35,750Y)
   Modifications: GelWeave 4

Weapons: (7,304Y)
Collapsible Heavy Crossbow (2,354Y)
   Accessories: Periscope, Tactical Sling
   Modificiations: Foregrip, Heavyweight, Internal Smartgun System, Nanoconstruction, Personalized Grip
Injection Bolt w/dose of Nacrojet x20 (2,200Y)
Krime Stinger Grenade x20 (2,750Y)

Combat:
Collapsible Crossbow (w/20 injection bolts filled with Nacroject) [Bow, DV 4P plus Nacroject, 4/15/12/8/-]; 11 dice + Wild Die to hit
20 x Krime Stinger Grenades [DV 16S/12S/8S, Blast 20m, 2/1/0/-/-]; 9 dice to hit

Karma:
+45 Base (Minotaurs lose 5)
+40 Negative Qualities

-48 Positive Qualities
-20 Nuyen
-5 Athletics Specialization
-5 Con Specialization
-5 Influence Specialization

2 remaining

Build Features:
So security armor with GelWeave provides you an amazing -5 vs. all incoming DV. Unfortunately, when GelWeave is used for this purpose it reduces your Agility, Reaction, and Movement by several points for 3 full rounds after the last hit. When one of those is reduce to 0, you gain the Immobilized status. . .which humorously enough does not prevent you from making Dodge Tests, it just eliminates your ability to add Reaction to that test.

So we compensate for that by expecting to get Immobilized, totally dumping Agility and Reaction as a result, but buying a ludicrous amount of Combat Sense to still be able to dodge well. With an automatic -5 off the DV of incoming attacks and 15 soak dice, even grenades start to look less imposing.

While Immobilized, you're going to have 0 Agility and a further -3 on all attack rolls, which currently leaves us with a mediocre 7 + 1 Wild Die for the bow, and 5 dice for grenades. Make liberal use of Edge to manipulate that Wild Die for best results.

Late game, your Combat Sense will be so high that pretty much any attack that allows a Defense Test is going to miss, so the nemesis inflicting Immobilized will only be explosives and indirect combat spells typically. You're attack pools will also be substantially higher even when Immobilized, so the penalty will be less impactful.

You're going to start every Mission down 4 P and S CM, due to Stolen Gear. As for the S portion of that, you can flat out buy it off after an hour of game time, so it is essentially negligible the majority of the time. Being down 4 P still leaves you with 12, which is plenty due to how much incoming DV you reduce. It will also be fully healed after an evenings rest, which happens in a good 50% or more of Missions.

Wear the Armante Suit to negotiate with Mr. Johnson if you are the face, and when you need to wear the Security Armor, you have 9 dice in your Con (disguise) pool. Use that, with the +2 concealability of all items under a trenchcoat to do everything in your power to obfuscate the illegal GelWeave component of the armor.

Finally, it also works decently as a back up face, and drugs drugs drugs! If you are not on Jazz and Psyche at all times, it's being done wrong, and Fat Larry is a little less jolly! Situational (read: any time it's go time) use of Jazz and Psyche will take your Initiative to a decent Initiative/Actions: 10 + 3d6/1 Major, 4 Minor, and add 3 more dice to Defense Tests and 1 dice to Logic tests to resist Illusion Spells, Manipulation Spells, and several critter powers.

What to do with that leftover Nuyen:

- Carry over 5,000 to play.
- Ask your GM how much a day's supply of real food will cost, and buy a month's worth to last you until the High Lifestyle change (I personally think 100Y/day is reasonable for a Troll with an appetite who will share the goods a little).
- Buy 20 frag grenades if you are playing Seattle Season (availability too high for Neo-Tokyo with setting adjustments).
- Consider buying a few doses of Nitro so you can boost your Willpower to 9 if the Mage threats start running high.

Advancement Path:
A full Missions season (12 SRMs, 8 CMPs, 2 PMs) will net ballpark around 150 karma and 264,000Y, before adjustments for Working for the Man or People. We'll also be down 110,000Y to maintain that High Lifestyle for maximum amusement, and to avoid soy food at all costs! Fat Larry only eats real meats (tm), son!

Use 150 Karma to get to Magic 6, Initiate Grade 6, and buy Improved Ability (Athletics) 3 and Combat Sense 18. Use another 10 Karma for Athletics Expertise (Bows) and Specialization (Throwing). If enough Karma remains, raise Athletics to 8, otherwise keep the remaining to bolster other areas with foci.

Money is pretty much a straight shot in either an armorer or decker contact to find you a suit of Heavy MilSpec with GelWeave 4 and Tough Weave 2. The armor alone will run you 77,000Y, before factoring in what you have to spend on Contacts to locate it, which is very likely to push the overall cost in the double territory.

Once done, and while Immobilized, you will have 24 defense dice (lol while stuck to the ground), and reduce all incoming DV by a massive -9 (3 from Heavy MilSpec, 4 from GelWeave, 2 from Tough Weave) before you even factor in your 15 soak dice and reducing anything that actually gets through by 1 (min 1) from Platelet Factories. Your crossbow attack will have 11 + Wild Die while Immobilized (14 + Wild Die while not Immobilized, which should be most of the time now), and grenades 10 dice while Immobilized (14 while not Immobilized).

Personality:
Fat Larry is incredibly fat and extremely jolly. He's always laughing, even at his own misfortune. Whether it is a good outlook on life or faking it to make it, not even Larry is sure!

Fat Larry has a devestating allergy to soy, which almost all food is made of, so he has worked hard to attain a lifestyle that allows him to eat actual real food. Despite his lifestyle, his pad is not particularly impressive, due to the oppressive costs of having a personal chef with real food on hand at all times. Lucky for you though, Fat Larry loves to share!

Fat Larry also routinely shows up to every meet and gathering with an assortment of bruises, most often a black eye, noticeable limp, and two pieces of tissue stuffed up each bloodied nostril. Man those guys really want their stuff back, but that won't stop Fat Larry from leaving the house and enjoying life! Besides, he already ate those truffles. . .
« Last Edit: <08-20-20/0558:20> by Lormyr »
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Hobbes

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« Reply #34 on: <08-17-20/1200:32> »
Honda Spirit.  Big guy in a little car is always good for a chuckle. 

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #35 on: <08-17-20/1209:55> »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Lormyr

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« Reply #36 on: <08-17-20/1212:29> »
I love it! And it is going to be even funnier, because his Reaction is so bad that he will literally have no dice pool to drive with unless high on Jazz while driving.

Perfection.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #37 on: <08-17-20/1214:07> »
Bah, few people in the Sixth World even know how to drive anyway.  That's what autopilots are for.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Lormyr

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« Reply #38 on: <08-17-20/1259:27> »
That is true, but depressing!

Probably short life span for relevancy anyhow. I would imagine that High Lifestyle characters get someone to drive them in something nice when they wish anyhow.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #39 on: <08-20-20/2054:24> »
Actually I noticed something else WRT Stolen Gear.

It caps you out at +150,000 nuyen.  So if you gain +20 karma from Stolen Gear, you're still only allowed to spend 15 karma on extra resources... and you "have" to spend the remaining 5 elsewhere to avoid breaking the cap.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Lormyr

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« Reply #40 on: <08-20-20/2120:08> »
I presumed that was an error otherwise the quality would only go to 15 points. Personally this build would work better with the additional five karma anyhow, but worth a clarification.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #41 on: <08-20-20/2127:31> »
I presumed that was an error otherwise the quality would only go to 15 points. Personally this build would work better with the additional five karma anyhow, but worth a clarification.

I wondered a while why the book says the limit is 150,000... but it's as clear as clear can be*, despite having otherwise having had the potential to gain 200,000 nuyen by spending 20 karma.

But this (and other) characters helped me see an epiphany.  Nothing's stopping you from spending, say, 70 karma on resources at 5,000 per karma point at the In Debt rate (compared to 2,000 per point at the default rate!)... if you had that much karma available.  Without this cap of +150,000 nuyen when you take Stolen Gear, spending 70 karma at double the CRB rate would get UBER STOOPID.


*well, the cap is "clear as clear can be" at any rate.  How you'd ever end up in the 16-20 bucket when you can only spend 15 karma is whats by RAW problematic... but easily enough dealt with (until such time it can be erratad) as to read the chart as MEANING to say how much karma you gained, rather than spent.  Or... if you REALLY wanna do mental gymnastics... "spending" negative karma IS gaining karma!
« Last Edit: <08-20-20/2135:44> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Lormyr

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« Reply #42 on: <08-20-20/2132:11> »
Was there no defined limit in the CRB? I can't access the book at the moment but my memory is telling me there was a 20 point conversion limit. If that is not the case then I completely agree.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #43 on: <08-20-20/2134:53> »
Was there no defined limit in the CRB? I can't access the book at the moment but my memory is telling me there was a 20 point conversion limit. If that is not the case then I completely agree.

Nope, no limit is stated in the CRB.  Throw it all at resources if you really want to.  Stolen gear does stop you from doing that, though.

Edit: reviewed the wording on In Debt.  Even that won't prohibit you from just taking +20 karma in other negative qualities, as it itself has a karma award of 0.  So 70 karma @ In Debt can potentially give you +350,000 nuyen, if you REALLY wanted that bonus money.
« Last Edit: <08-20-20/2150:43> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Lormyr

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« Reply #44 on: <08-20-20/2139:16> »
Got it. Either way, as you said though, the quality is clearly written. Knowing there is no cap does make walk back thinking the printing was likely in error, so I agree with your analysis.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling