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SR6 TM Elf Question

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markelphoenix

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« on: <07-31-20/0126:30> »
So Attack stat for Living Persona is Charisma
If
Exception Attribute Charisma (9 Charisma)
Resonance Bonus Points +4 to Attack
Infusion (Attack) +18 [hypothetical maximum of twice the targets normal rating, in this case the normal Attack attribute in this case would be 9, unrealistic to get that many 'hits' though]

So, hypothetically, exploding dice and all to achieve Infusion 22 hits, wouldn't the Attack attribute after all buffs be 31? If so, would that not make Data Spike base DV of 16?

Also, separate question, can a Living Persona take the Reconfigure Matrix Attribute action?
« Last Edit: <07-31-20/0146:22> by markelphoenix »

Xenon

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« Reply #1 on: <07-31-20/0207:12> »
So Attack stat ....
If you really invest for it you can get pretty high matrix attributes as a technomancer, yes.


Note that if you have an extreme Attack Attribute (but not as extreme Sleaze Attribute) then odds are you will take a rather big negative dice pool modifier to actions linked to Sleaze (more specifically both Probe and Backdoor Entry).

SR6 p. 178 Hacking the Matrix
If you use an action or program that’s linked to the lower of the two attributes, like using Brute Force (an Attack-linked action) when your Sleaze is higher than your Attack, you take the difference between the higher and lower Attributes as a dice pool penalty to the test required for that action.


Also, depending on your reading the following might or might not also apply to technomancers:

SR6 p. 178 Hacking the Matrix
Once you have initiated a hack, you cannot swap the base values of your Attack or Sleaze Attributes as long as you have access to the place you hacked into.



Also, separate question, can a Living Persona take the Reconfigure Matrix Attribute action?
Technically, this is the action Technomancers with a living persona use when they they shift around their resonance bonus points...

SR6 p. 189 Living Persona
Bonus points can be moved between two attributes with a Reconfigure Matrix Attribute action.

Xenon

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« Reply #2 on: <07-31-20/0459:56> »
Infusion (Attack) +18 ...
If the normal Attack is 9 (Charisma 8 from Elf + 1 from Exceptional Attribute) I am pretty sure you can only use Infusion to raise it up to twice that (so up to another +9 for a total of 18).

But due to the words they choose I can also see how you can read it as if the max number of buffs you can give it is equal to twice the normal rating (so with a normal rating of 9 you would buff it with +18 from infusion, with a total of 27). But I don't think this is the correct reading.

SR6 p. 190 Infusion (Matrix Attribute)
...each net hit increases (attribute) by 1 up to twice the targets normal rating.


Banshee

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« Reply #3 on: <07-31-20/0655:10> »
Xenon is correct,  "twice normal rating" is the max it go to too not tye max you can add.

So ... base of 9 plus 4 for resonance then a max of plus 13 for infusion
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Xenon

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« Reply #4 on: <07-31-20/0730:47> »
Oh, so you get to include the +4 from resonance as well?
Guess I was just half right then :-)

(I assumed you didn't since the text says "targets normal rating").

Banshee

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« Reply #5 on: <07-31-20/0814:18> »
Oh, so you get to include the +4 from resonance as well?
Guess I was just half right then :-)

(I assumed you didn't since the text says "targets normal rating").

Well technically the "normal" matrix attribute for a TM is the mental attribute plus the Resonance boost ... at least that is my intention
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markelphoenix

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« Reply #6 on: <07-31-20/0814:52> »
Xenon is correct,  "twice normal rating" is the max it go to too not tye max you can add.

So ... base of 9 plus 4 for resonance then a max of plus 13 for infusion

Thrown off by that.
Quote
...by 1 up to twice
the targets normal rating...

so, I read this as, (Normal Rating)*2 = Max increase of the spell

So if normal rating is base + resonance modifier, and that totals 13, then twice normal rating is 26, no?

So, wouldn't that be an increase of 26 added to existing 13, totaling 39?

markelphoenix

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« Reply #7 on: <07-31-20/0823:08> »
Xenon is correct,  "twice normal rating" is the max it go to too not tye max you can add.

So ... base of 9 plus 4 for resonance then a max of plus 13 for infusion

Thrown off by that.
Quote
...by 1 up to twice
the targets normal rating...

so, I read this as, (Normal Rating)*2 = Max increase of the form

So if normal rating is base + resonance modifier, and that totals 13, then twice normal rating is 26, no?

So, wouldn't that be an increase of 26 added to existing 13, totaling 39?

Banshee

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« Reply #8 on: <07-31-20/0838:15> »
Or you can read it as raise it up to twice it's normal value and not add twice its normal value... which is what I intended.

Then on top of that is the question of does this get capped by the augmentation max ... well I didn't write that section but strictly speaking it should probably be yes.

Which would expand Infusion to say ....

"Each net hit increases (attribute) by 1, up to a max of +4 or twice it's starting value which ever is less."
Then define starting value is equal to the TM mental attribute plus any Resonance boost.

But that is just a heavily influenced matter of opinion taking what I intended and integrating what I think was intended elsewhere.

The Resonance boost is there to allow technomancers to have some flexibility and be on relative equal footing as a deck, then Infusion should mimic the Increase attribute spells.
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #9 on: <07-31-20/0902:43> »
To be fair we don't have augmented maximum on things other than skills and attributes, no? Cars don't have augmented max on armour, for example.
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Banshee

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« Reply #10 on: <07-31-20/0923:21> »
To be fair we don't have augmented maximum on things other than skills and attributes, no? Cars don't have augmented max on armour, for example.

Which is why this could technically go either way ... it is effecting an Attribute, just not one of the standard metahuman attributes
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #11 on: <07-31-20/1024:11> »
True, but 'Attributes' as on p37 applies only to the Physical, Mental and Special. The limit is on characters their adjusted attributes, not any derivate attribute in Matrix and such. So I wouldn't say Adjusted/Augmented Maximum applies to a Living Persona's Matrix Attributes.
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markelphoenix

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« Reply #12 on: <07-31-20/1343:01> »
Separate question, how does a TM jack out?

Banshee

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« Reply #13 on: <07-31-20/1409:36> »
Separate question, how does a TM jack out?

For game mechanics purposes just like anyone else, they take an action to do so.
Thematically they take the time to focus on mentally breaking the matrix connection
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dougansf

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« Reply #14 on: <07-31-20/1418:06> »
True, but 'Attributes' as on p37 applies only to the Physical, Mental and Special. The limit is on characters their adjusted attributes, not any derivate attribute in Matrix and such. So I wouldn't say Adjusted/Augmented Maximum applies to a Living Persona's Matrix Attributes.

Since Skills get the same treatment (p39) I'd be inclined to make the +4 max a general rule across the board. Especially for temp buffs like spells/forms.