NEWS

S6 Edge Discount on Summoning Air Spirits (Thunderbird Mentor)

  • 4 Replies
  • 97 Views

markelphoenix

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 532
« on: <07-29-20/1736:15> »
So, which is it between these options:
1)
I roll Conjuring
Spirit rolls to resist
I roll drain
I can choose only one of those to spend edge on, per usual, but I can use the Edge discount for any of those three rolls

OR

2)
I roll Conjuring
Spirit rolls resist
I roll drain
I can ONLY use the edge discount on the Conjuring roll

Shinobi Killfist

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2508
« Reply #1 on: <07-29-20/1811:30> »
I'd consider the drain part of the test, so both. They don't break it down to numbered steps like spell casting but under spell casting, drain is step 3. Its not 100% proof or anything but to me that means its part of the test process. 

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 3768
« Reply #2 on: <07-29-20/1818:30> »
Agreed with Shinobi Killfist.

I think I could craft a rules lawyerly argument saying such (predicated on the absence of the 'test' keyword), but frankly something I've learned since being on the errata team is that the rules were never written nor edited to a technical degree of precision. :D

I think it's the intent that it should work on any test that happens to be invoked during the process of summoning a spirit.

RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Xenon

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 5755
« Reply #3 on: <07-29-20/1846:20> »
If you gonna be a bit more strict about it the discount only applies on the summoning test which is resolved with Conjuring + Magic vs. (Force x 2). Not the drain resistance test nor the banishing test or any other conjuring related test for that matter.

But I agree that the drain resistance test can be seen as being part of the act of 'summoning spirits' and that the discount may apply to edge boosts in either of the two tests.


Note that wording around edge discounts are also [still] really weird...
As written Edge Actions can not cost less than 1, but Edge Boost can??
Does this mean that 1-Edge Boosts that normally cost 1 Edge are now free??
(except the "Use an Edge Action" 1-Edge Boost which explicitly can't cost less than 1)
Does this mean that you can multiply the same 1-Edge Boost that now cost 0 Edge and still pay zero Edge??
This is probably not the intent, but this is what a strict reading of the rules says ;-/


.....I think perhaps the intent here might be that either:
  • discounts (such as the Thunderbird discount) lower the Edge cost by 1 per Edge Expenditure (rather than Edge Boost as written) and that the cost per Edge Expenditure can not be lower than 1 (rather than Edge Action as written)
or
  • discounts lower the Edge cost by 1 per Edge Boost (as written) but the cost per Edge Boost can not be lower than 1 (rather than Edge Action as written)

Rerolling 3 dice (your own failed dice or your opponents successes) in the first case would cost (1*3)-1=2 Edge but would not be discounted at all and still cost (1-0)*3=3 Edge in the second case.

Adding +1 to 2 different dice (normally two multiples of the same 2-Edge boost) in the first case would cost (2*2)-1=3 Edge but only (2-1)*2=2 Edge in the second case.

Rerolling all failed dice (normally a 4-Edge boost) in the first case would cost (4*1)-1=3 Edge and also (4-1)*1=3 Edge in the second case.
« Last Edit: <07-29-20/1900:39> by Xenon »

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 3768
« Reply #4 on: <07-29-20/1852:15> »
.....I think perhaps the intent here might be that either:
  • discounts (such as the Thunderbird discount) lower the Edge cost by 1 per Edge Expenditure (rather than Edge Boost as written) and that the cost per Edge Expenditure can not be lower than 1 (rather than Edge Action as written)
or
  • discounts lower the Edge cost by 1 per Edge Boost (as written) but the cost per Edge Boost can not be lower than 1 (rather than Edge Action as written)

The intent is easy enough:

You never spend 0 edge when using edge.  You can't reroll 1 die for 0 edge, because the minimum cost is 1.  However you can reroll two dice for 1 edge, because (1+1)-1=1.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.