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SR6 'deck

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Leith

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« on: <07-23-20/0817:50> »
Anyone know if and where the SR6 corebook says you need a cyberdeck to use attack and sleaze actions?

markelphoenix

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« Reply #1 on: <07-23-20/0833:29> »
Anyone know if and where the SR6 corebook says you need a cyberdeck to use attack and sleaze actions?

"Hacking the Matrix
Historically, hacking the Matrix required a
considerable financial investment in the form of a
cyberdeck. The technology curve hasn’t flattened
out, but over time, subversive elements have found
ways to harness powerful computing using whatever
tools are at hand. This isn’t to say a good cyberdeck
isn’t worth its weight in gold, but at the
end of the day, a hacker with the right skills can
work wonders with even a kludged-together deck
(or if they’re a technomancer, no deck at all)." pg. 178



notice the last part, even with a kuldged-together deck or technomancer, which denotes to the two ways to use hacking, by deck or by technomancy.

They're also the only listed device with an Attack/Sleaze rating.

"In game terms, the difference between a commlink
and a cyberdeck is that the cyberdeck possesses
the Matrix Attributes needed for hacking
(see Personas and Attributes, below)."

"If the device doesn’t possess one or more
of the Matrix attributes, then the applicable attribute
is treated as if it were 0. You can rotate any
non-zero attributes through your persona, even
if they originated from different devices" pg 174

So, yeah, Cyberdeck required.

Hobbes

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« Reply #2 on: <07-23-20/1030:24> »
Anyone know if and where the SR6 corebook says you need a cyberdeck to use attack and sleaze actions?

Resonance attribute or Cyberdecks are the only sources of Attack or Sleaze ratings in the CRB.  There are several Matrix Actions that are specifically linked to Attack or Sleaze, I don't recall them off the top of my head.

Xenon

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« Reply #3 on: <07-23-20/1105:28> »
Anyone know if and where the SR6 corebook says you need a cyberdeck to use attack and sleaze actions?
You need to access the matrix via a cyberdeck (or with a living persona) in order to take Matrix Actions that are linked to either Attack (Data Spike, Tarpit and Brute Force) or Sleaze (Probe and Backdoor Entry, but also the Hide action if you are running the Stealth program and the Trace Icon action if you are running the Trace program).

Spoof Command, for example, is not linked to Attack nor Sleaze (and it can also be taken with just Outsider Access) which mean you can often take this action even if you are just accessing the Matrix via a regular Commlink or a RCC (you still need the Cracking skill though). This is by design (and a deliberate change from the previous edition where Spoof Command used to be a Sleaze action).

Leith

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« Reply #4 on: <07-25-20/1211:30> »
Anyone know if and where the SR6 corebook says you need a cyberdeck to use attack and sleaze actions?
You need to access the matrix via a cyberdeck (or with a living persona) in order to take Matrix Actions that are linked to either Attack (Data Spike, Tarpit and Brute Force) or Sleaze (Probe and Backdoor Entry, but also the Hide action if you are running the Stealth program and the Trace Icon action if you are running the Trace program).

Spoof Command, for example, is not linked to Attack nor Sleaze (and it can also be taken with just Outsider Access) which mean you can often take this action even if you are just accessing the Matrix via a regular Commlink or a RCC (you still need the Cracking skill though). This is by design (and a deliberate change from the previous edition where Spoof Command used to be a Sleaze action).

Where does the book actually say that? It seems implied I'll grant you, but no actual rules about which actions can be done with a commlink and which need a deck.

Xenon

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« Reply #5 on: <07-25-20/1326:43> »
The book doesn't explicitly state this :-(

Which is why I asked the same thing directly to the author (Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht) and this was his response:

Speaking of matrix actions.

Book doesn't seem to mention which actions you cannot take and which programs you cannot use if you don't have a cyberdeck (or a living persona) / which actions that require that you have a Sleaze or Attack rating. I didn't really like the Limits we had in the previous edition, but at least they made it clear which matrix attribute you were required to have in order to take an action.


Devices
In game terms, the difference between a commlink and a cyberdeck is that the cyberdeck possesses the Matrix Attributes needed for hacking

Hack
See Brute Force or Probe Hack


Book doesn't say, but I am assuming that actions and programs that are explicitly "linked" to either Attack (Brute Force, Data Spike & Tarpit as well as Biofeedback & Blackout) or Sleaze (Probe & Backdoor Entry as well as Stealth & Trace) require that you actually use a cyberdeck.

But what about other actions that require the Cracking skill and does not require that you first hack access. Outside actions, such as Spoof Command. Would a rigger using a RCC (and not a cyberdeck) be able to take the Spoof Command action (which is not linked to either Attack or Sleaze), as long as he have the proper Cracking skill of course?

And what about other illegal actions that does not use the Cracking skill. Such as the Hash Check action. Would a reporter just using a regular commlink be able to take the Hash Check action to search for a specific file even if it is encrypted?

And what about other hacking programs, that are not linked. Can you run Fork on a commlink to send the same instruction to two different drones at once? Can you run overclock on a RCC to gain a positive dice pool modifier of 2 dice when remote controlling your car?


Another thing Limits made clear was how the end user experienced the hack attempt. Attack actions being violent and always immediately obvious on success (but did not raise any alerts on a failed attempt, and even damaged the hacker) while sleaze actions were discrete and silent (unless you failed, in which case the target didn't just notice the attacker - they even gained access on the hacker).

Even though the book doesn't say, I am assuming that actions linked to Attack are still immediately obvious and that they no longer deal damage on fail, but will they now still be subtle on a fail or is the intention that for example a failed data spike or brute force attempt to be obvious in this edition?

(Book seem to be more clear when it comes to the few actions that are linked to sleaze - in this edition they are not only subtle on success, they now also seem to be subtle even if you fail)

But how obvious are other actions?

Some actions not linked to sleaze still "feels" like they should be stealthy, like Snoop and Format Device for example (which both explicitly used to be Sleaze actions in the previous edition).

While other actions not linked to attack "feels" like they should still be obvious, like Crash Program and Crack File for example (which both explicitly used to be Attack actions in the previous edition).


I guess what I am missing here is the whole "Noticing hackers"-chapter :-/
Anything that is linked to an attribute is action that requires that attribute to be used. All nonlinked actions do not. Yes that means anyone can attempt the outsider actions ... especially riggers using an RCC.

Attack linked actions are always noticed, all other actions (unless noted otherwise) are detected on a failed roll only

Banshee

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« Reply #6 on: <07-26-20/0919:32> »
Self admittedly this is one of the places where author blindness was in full effect.
I felt that by stating those actions were linked to the attributes it would be obvious. It was to me. 😉
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
Freelancer & FAQ Committee member
Former RPG Lead Agent
Catalyst Demo Team

Leith

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« Reply #7 on: <07-26-20/2044:48> »
I inferred that this was the case but only cuz I played SR5. But if the rule doesn't exist, it doesn't exist.

Banshee

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« Reply #8 on: <07-27-20/0823:00> »
I inferred that this was the case but only cuz I played SR5. But if the rule doesn't exist, it doesn't exist.

It does exist... that's what linked means

Edit: as I've stated above in hindsight this was a poor choice of wording, but it seemed obvious to me and what ever editing was done by others.
« Last Edit: <07-27-20/0847:12> by Banshee »
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
Freelancer & FAQ Committee member
Former RPG Lead Agent
Catalyst Demo Team

Leith

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« Reply #9 on: <07-28-20/0029:54> »
I inferred that this was the case but only cuz I played SR5. But if the rule doesn't exist, it doesn't exist.

It does exist... that's what linked means

Edit: as I've stated above in hindsight this was a poor choice of wording, but it seemed obvious to me and what ever editing was done by others.

I don't think that word means what you think it means. But that would be what a good editing team is for, and Catalyst doesn't seem to have one of those.

Xenon

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« Reply #10 on: <07-28-20/0615:17> »
:o