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S6 Spirit Powers

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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #30 on: <07-28-20/1300:22> »
If a spell have a LOS requirement then the magician need to have LOS at the time of casting. The magician does not need to maintain LOS to sustain the spell once it is already cast.



except for levitate for some insane reason.

markelphoenix

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« Reply #31 on: <07-28-20/1522:09> »
If a spell have a LOS requirement then the magician need to have LOS at the time of casting. The magician does not need to maintain LOS to sustain the spell once it is already cast.



except for levitate for some insane reason.

Levitate became super lethal. With damage codes per 3 meters /2, able to move target Magic meters per minor action. Any sort of roof top, cliff, or any other venue of a long drop, levitate them over the side where they have no chance of grabbing onto anything and watch them take crazy dv in fall damage.

Also in that vain, if a runner tries to levitate up another runner to a specific location, a blind effect could become extremely lethal.

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #32 on: <07-28-20/1622:29> »
If a spell have a LOS requirement then the magician need to have LOS at the time of casting. The magician does not need to maintain LOS to sustain the spell once it is already cast.



except for levitate for some insane reason.

Levitate became super lethal. With damage codes per 3 meters /2, able to move target Magic meters per minor action. Any sort of roof top, cliff, or any other venue of a long drop, levitate them over the side where they have no chance of grabbing onto anything and watch them take crazy dv in fall damage.

Also in that vain, if a runner tries to levitate up another runner to a specific location, a blind effect could become extremely lethal.

So?  I can do that watching. The reduced speed as of 5e was more than enough of a limit.  It didn't need more. Especially a weird limit that doesn't fit the magic system. And while it takes a minor action to move them its magic in meters per turn.  After nailing someone with a spell, sustaining it for multiple turns it doing a lot of damage isn't that big of a deal. Neither this nor the new weight limit of the spell was needed.

Xenon

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« Reply #33 on: <07-28-20/1735:50> »
I'd also say the weapon focus is a explicit example of the connection the astral body has to the physical. If it was an exception it would have been stated that way, as opposed to more of a reminder since the stabby part has a psychical form.
Not sure what you meant with that.

Your astral body just bring the astral part of your weapons focus with it into astral space...
you can't use a weapon focus while projecting to hurt targets that only exists on the physical plane.

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #34 on: <07-28-20/1817:35> »
I'd also say the weapon focus is a explicit example of the connection the astral body has to the physical. If it was an exception it would have been stated that way, as opposed to more of a reminder since the stabby part has a psychical form.
Not sure what you meant with that.

Your astral body just bring the astral part of your weapons focus with it into astral space...
you can't use a weapon focus while projecting to hurt targets that only exists on the physical plane.


Sorry half my thought was put out, distracted by work.

All focuses, can go over to the astral.  But they felt the need to make specific commentary on weapon focus as it actually specifies how it works and also brings its physical form and damage along though it can only be used on the astral. If spells did not continue to be sustained when you astrally projected under sustaining focuses you would need to put some kind of exception or explanation, either sustaining focuses unlike most focusses deactivate when you go to the astral as you can not sustain spells you cast on the physical when you astrally project, or unlike normal sustaining sustaining focuses allow you to sustain spells cast on the physical realm when you astrally project.

Weapon focuses show they are willing to create a specific rule on how it works in the astral, but it is silent on sustaining focuses.

markelphoenix

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« Reply #35 on: <07-28-20/1857:02> »
If a spell have a LOS requirement then the magician need to have LOS at the time of casting. The magician does not need to maintain LOS to sustain the spell once it is already cast.



except for levitate for some insane reason.

Levitate became super lethal. With damage codes per 3 meters /2, able to move target Magic meters per minor action. Any sort of roof top, cliff, or any other venue of a long drop, levitate them over the side where they have no chance of grabbing onto anything and watch them take crazy dv in fall damage.

Also in that vain, if a runner tries to levitate up another runner to a specific location, a blind effect could become extremely lethal.

So?  I can do that watching. The reduced speed as of 5e was more than enough of a limit.  It didn't need more. Especially a weird limit that doesn't fit the magic system. And while it takes a minor action to move them its magic in meters per turn.  After nailing someone with a spell, sustaining it for multiple turns it doing a lot of damage isn't that big of a deal. Neither this nor the new weight limit of the spell was needed.

Ahh, missed per turn. Still, Magic in meters is enough to send them off a cliff or rooftop. To take out a single baddy, especially if it's a big baddy, for 1 Major + 1 Minor, I'd argue that isn't bad.

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #36 on: <07-29-20/0215:16> »
If a spell have a LOS requirement then the magician need to have LOS at the time of casting. The magician does not need to maintain LOS to sustain the spell once it is already cast.



except for levitate for some insane reason.

Levitate became super lethal. With damage codes per 3 meters /2, able to move target Magic meters per minor action. Any sort of roof top, cliff, or any other venue of a long drop, levitate them over the side where they have no chance of grabbing onto anything and watch them take crazy dv in fall damage.

Also in that vain, if a runner tries to levitate up another runner to a specific location, a blind effect could become extremely lethal.

So?  I can do that watching. The reduced speed as of 5e was more than enough of a limit.  It didn't need more. Especially a weird limit that doesn't fit the magic system. And while it takes a minor action to move them its magic in meters per turn.  After nailing someone with a spell, sustaining it for multiple turns it doing a lot of damage isn't that big of a deal. Neither this nor the new weight limit of the spell was needed.

Ahh, missed per turn. Still, Magic in meters is enough to send them off a cliff or rooftop. To take out a single baddy, especially if it's a big baddy, for 1 Major + 1 Minor, I'd argue that isn't bad.

Yes if you happen to be fighting on a roof top it is more effective.  Of course control actions would do the same and potentially to a group.

Xenon

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« Reply #37 on: <07-29-20/0257:44> »
...but it is silent on sustaining focuses.
You just activate/trigger/use the weapon focus (just like you activate/trigger/use a critter power)
After that they stay active without requiring a that you pay them attention (just like a critter power)
No matter if you leave the physical plane or not (...just like a critter power?)

And you can also choose when to deactivate them (just like a critter power).
No matter if you are are on the physical plane or not (...just like a critter power?)

Hobbes

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« Reply #38 on: <07-29-20/0954:54> »

Yes if you happen to be fighting on a roof top it is more effective.  Of course control actions would do the same and potentially to a group.

The conga line of security going off the deck of the ship you're hijacking... good times. 

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #39 on: <07-29-20/1325:51> »
...but it is silent on sustaining focuses.
You just activate/trigger/use the weapon focus (just like you activate/trigger/use a critter power)
After that they stay active without requiring a that you pay them attention (just like a critter power)
No matter if you leave the physical plane or not (...just like a critter power?)

And you can also choose when to deactivate them (just like a critter power).
No matter if you are are on the physical plane or not (...just like a critter power?)

Yes, but the question isn't can you keep sustaining a spell when going over to the astral due to some concentration issue, its does your going to the astral break your tie to the psychical plane enough that your spell is no longer working. Sustaining focuses go down when you go to sleep so they need some conscious level from you to keep active.  So if the rule is you have a connection to your body, its enough to maintain concentration on spells kept active through a focus but not through focused concentration or just normal sustaining you'd think they would clarify it, as I said they were willing to clarify how a weapon focus works. So clarifying a how a focus works on the astral is something they are willing to do. And this isn't just a catalyst editing thing, its been this way since 1e where editing was a bit more robust. 

They don't talk about not being able to sustain spells when going to the astral because you can.

The more interesting question to me is since physical spells don't work in the astral what happens when a physical spell interacts with your body, I'm thinking specifically the increase/decrease attribute spells. Would the spell still be on you but the effect drops in the astral as its a psychical spell, or would you gain the benefit of the spell in the astral as the psychical spell is effecting your physical body and you are indirectly gaining the boost in the astral?

Astral combat might actually be viable if you can beef up your key attributes to 9+

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #40 on: <07-29-20/1327:52> »

Yes if you happen to be fighting on a roof top it is more effective.  Of course control actions would do the same and potentially to a group.

The conga line of security going off the deck of the ship you're hijacking... good times.

That's pretty much how we used it, even dropped them a lifeboat. While death is death there is something dark about puppeting someone into suicide.

Xenon

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« Reply #41 on: <07-29-20/1618:29> »
They don't talk about not being able to sustain spells when going to the astral because you can.
They also don't talk about not being able to sustain powers when going to the astral (because you can?)



The more interesting question to me is since physical spells don't work in the astral what happens when a physical spell interacts with your body, I'm thinking specifically the increase/decrease attribute spells.
I read it as Physical spells affect physical forms 'only'.

If you cast a physical spell on your physical body and then project then your physical body would still be affected by the spell (but your 'mental' astral alter ego would not?).
« Last Edit: <07-29-20/1622:11> by Xenon »

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #42 on: <07-29-20/1700:45> »
They don't talk about not being able to sustain spells when going to the astral because you can.
They also don't talk about not being able to sustain powers when going to the astral (because you can?)



True.  I'm not sold on the idea that the rule is spirits can't.  I can see why that could potentially be a bad idea mechanically as there wouldn't be a enemy to attack and stop it. I think the difference is the terminology that they can't be used in the astral plane, sustaining could be seen as a use. Where as with projection it says can't cast at and sustaining isn't casting.

My instinct is that both would be able to per raw. And I'll say since playing this since it launched in 1e, I have not seen it be a issue.  Spirits had plenty of issues, but them concealing and leaving hasn't been one of them. Maybe great form spirits with extreme powers it might be a issue. But, I think there is enough there to make a distinction for powers, I don't think there is anything there to infer mages can't.

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #43 on: <07-29-20/1706:16> »

I read it as Physical spells affect physical forms 'only'.

If you cast a physical spell on your physical body and then project then your physical body would still be affected by the spell (but your 'mental' astral alter ego would not?).

I can definitely see that reading, I can see the other side that your astral form is created from your mental stats which are now higher. I don't know how I'd rule. In the specific case of increase attributes I like it as a GM as I feel the astral combat skill is virtually worthless due to the stats you will have vs spirits or astral threats. But, its one of those things where maybe its fine now at base core book but after spell X comes out in magic book Y it is now a broken rule.

Xenon

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« Reply #44 on: <07-29-20/1814:55> »
I can see the other side that your astral form is created from your mental stats which are now higher.
Ah. Yes, I see what you mean. I think I changed my mind on this as well. Physical spells that affect your mind will probably benefit you in astral space (and maybe increase mental attributes should have been mana spells rather than physical spells to begin with - that way you could cast, and re-cast, them in astral space as well).

Physical augmentations that raise mental attributes (such as logic and intuition - not that magicians normally get them, but still) would probably also benefit you in astral space...