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Canon measure of magical force?

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Aria

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« on: <07-02-20/0303:53> »
Anyone recall if there’s an in-game measure of force for spells or spirits, something like the Richter or Beaufort scale?

Thanks
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dezmont

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« Reply #1 on: <07-02-20/0806:51> »
Certain aspects of magical force certainly are, like Initiate Grade, or Foci Forces, because grades are clearly deliniated things and are referenced I believe in the Jackpointer profiles, and Foci forces are specifically chosen.

Spells used to also have objective grades, as spell formulae had to be learned at specific grades.

Other stuff is less clear. In theory, the universe has enough tools to measure force objectively (Ex: Assensing telling you if you are weaker or stronger than something lets you create an objective scale that would become accurate if a group of mages recorded their assessments of each other's power levels). Likewise, this would let you determine force to some extent if you desired (have the mages, once their power levels are quantified, summon the strongest spirits they can, and compare them).

However, this is a bit like quantifying strength scores by having characters all test each other's carry weight. Its a BIT more natural with magic, but it would still be weird. It might be appropriate to measure magic on SOME scale that isn't the 1-6+ scale (Like a magic 3 mage could score anywhere from 2799-3800 'manawatts' or whatever from their aura), or it could remain a nebulous comparison thing. I would lean to the second, or at least have the first be VERY innacurate and fuzzy and not easy to measure at all, as part of the nature of RPGs is to codify things to specific absolute values, but in general capacities of people don't work like that, its an abstraction, and avoiding characters talking about any sort of 'magic score' helps avoid everyone feeling like they are in a videogame.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #2 on: <07-02-20/0946:04> »
Anyone recall if there’s an in-game measure of force for spells or spirits, something like the Richter or Beaufort scale?

Thanks

I want to say that I do remember one... exactly one... instance where some in-universe power scale for spirits is referenced. It bore some name that sounded like a surname.  I THINK it was in a jackpointer comment, or an earlier edition analogue.  Can't remember any contextual clues, though.  No help on what edition it was, or even what kind of book it was (other than it being a RPG book- not a novel).  Only other thing I DO recall about it was noticing that I never heard of it before in any SR materials, nor do I recall any other source re-using it.

EDIT:  Having thought about this some more, I think maybe it was somewhere in the 4e CRB.  It had to be something later-on-ish for me to think it was odd that it was never said before, I THINK I can remember where I lived when I had that thought, which would correspond with the 4e era.  Plus, 4e brought us UMT which seems to be a "yeah that makes sense" bit of rationalization on my part as well...
« Last Edit: <07-02-20/0952:49> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
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penllawen

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« Reply #3 on: <07-02-20/0950:00> »
It might be appropriate to measure magic on SOME scale that isn't the 1-6+ scale (Like a magic 3 mage could score anywhere from 2799-3800 'manawatts' or whatever from their aura)
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Tecumseh

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« Reply #4 on: <07-02-20/1733:01> »
4E's Parageology mentions the "Metzger-Typhus scale" and 5E's Street Grimoire mentions "Typhus-Metzger scale" although the context for both is mana/ley lines. Per Street Grimoire, mana lines range in force from 1 to 15 to it's possible this scale isn't the same one as what's used for measuring spells/spirits.

I'm almost positive I remember a piece of fluff that includes mention of a scale that would be the in-universe equivalent of Force, but there are so, so many books and so, so many fluff pieces... It's entirely possible that it was Metzger-Typhus (or Typhus-Metzger) too, so if you want something that sounds pretty close, you could go with that.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #5 on: <07-02-20/1751:07> »
4E's Parageology mentions the "Metzger-Typhus scale" and 5E's Street Grimoire mentions "Typhus-Metzger scale" although the context for both is mana/ley lines. Per Street Grimoire, mana lines range in force from 1 to 15 to it's possible this scale isn't the same one as what's used for measuring spells/spirits.

I'm almost positive I remember a piece of fluff that includes mention of a scale that would be the in-universe equivalent of Force, but there are so, so many books and so, so many fluff pieces... It's entirely possible that it was Metzger-Typhus (or Typhus-Metzger) too, so if you want something that sounds pretty close, you could go with that.

I'm pretty sure that's what I was remembering, too.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Aria

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« Reply #6 on: <07-03-20/0517:36> »
Thanks guys!  It's purely for fluff too so the MT scale works for me... I just hate telling players that there's a spirit that's a bit less powerful than you (comparing magic ratings) every time and it would be nice to put a bit of flavour in! :)
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markelphoenix

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« Reply #7 on: <08-05-20/1239:14> »
Thanks guys!  It's purely for fluff too so the MT scale works for me... I just hate telling players that there's a spirit that's a bit less powerful than you (comparing magic ratings) every time and it would be nice to put a bit of flavour in! :)

Most GMs I've played with just give me the details. If it's force 8 and I passed my assessing check, GM tells me it's force 8. What I in character communicate to my team is my characters professional opinion,"They got some strong spirit defenses on site. May want to recon and see if there's a specific time they resummon."