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SR6 Neijia

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Marcus

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« Reply #15 on: <06-09-20/0043:36> »
looks like you have some Errata to do...

Given that Neijia exist is this even meaningful?

I don't understand what you mean here.
I'd say the only flaw with neijia is it shouldn't be a martial art but the default, if there is a martial art around it it should improve the default. Attacks of will go back to 1e.

That being said, it works less well in 6e with static unarmed damage. In 1-3e(i don't remember how 4e/5e did it. It was a semi valid choice to go with but if you were buff enough a straight attack and just trying to overpower IRNW might be better.

I'll rephrase, is there even a point to errating the Astral AR issue in light of the existence Neijia? AR is so meaningless in the first place. I didn't see a point in adding to the massive list of needed changes when I don't see the question being of any real meaning.
« Last Edit: <06-09-20/0048:14> by Marcus »
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markelphoenix

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« Reply #16 on: <06-12-20/1034:18> »
looks like you have some Errata to do...

Given that Neijia exist is this even meaningful?

I don't understand what you mean here.
I'd say the only flaw with neijia is it shouldn't be a martial art but the default, if there is a martial art around it it should improve the default. Attacks of will go back to 1e.

That being said, it works less well in 6e with static unarmed damage. In 1-3e(i don't remember how 4e/5e did it. It was a semi valid choice to go with but if you were buff enough a straight attack and just trying to overpower IRNW might be better.

I'll rephrase, is there even a point to errating the Astral AR issue in light of the existence Neijia? AR is so meaningless in the first place. I didn't see a point in adding to the massive list of needed changes when I don't see the question being of any real meaning.

Given how valuable Edge is, AR is kind of a big deal.

Hobbes

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« Reply #17 on: <06-12-20/1419:08> »
2 DV attack vs a Spirit with a high enough force that your normal 6 to 8 DV (with Narrow Burst and Explosive Ammo) attacks are bouncing?  Mostly pointless. 

If you've got a really high Unarmed Combat pool but don't have Killing Hands or a Weapon Foci.... sure, could be worth the 5 Karma to tickle an occasional Spirit.  Very Niche.

Personally I was fine with the 0 Attack Value.  Leaves Spirit thumping mostly the domain of Adepts with Killing Hands and Weapon Foci, but still gives Mundanes an option.  A mechanically poor option, but an option to ignore ItNW.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #18 on: <06-12-20/1541:43> »
That's all fair, and maybe it could/should be errata'd that way.

Kind of like the argument against blight though:  it'd be better if ItNW wasn't a problem in the first place.  Giving mundanes an option to hurt spirits ought to be addressed at the spirit end, not the mundane end.
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Hobbes

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« Reply #19 on: <06-12-20/1715:08> »
My own preference for Spirits ItNW would be give them all Vulnerabilities or Allergies.  Knowledge and Preparation pay! 

Fire beats Grass, Water beats Fire, Rock beats Water... or wait, was that the other way around... and what beats Psy... is that even a type... and what the hell is Psyduck....

Anyway, give mundanes something to bypass ItNW that isn't great, but okay.  Neijia kind of does that but not really.  It does for Sammies with high enough Unarmed combat pools that they'll pick up some net hits to raise the DV and chip away at a Spirit.  But a burst fire weapon with explosive rounds would also chip away at most Spirits. 


Marcus

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« Reply #20 on: <06-12-20/2038:15> »
looks like you have some Errata to do...

Given that Neijia exist is this even meaningful?

I don't understand what you mean here.
I'd say the only flaw with neijia is it shouldn't be a martial art but the default, if there is a martial art around it it should improve the default. Attacks of will go back to 1e.

That being said, it works less well in 6e with static unarmed damage. In 1-3e(i don't remember how 4e/5e did it. It was a semi valid choice to go with but if you were buff enough a straight attack and just trying to overpower IRNW might be better.

I'll rephrase, is there even a point to errating the Astral AR issue in light of the existence Neijia? AR is so meaningless in the first place. I didn't see a point in adding to the massive list of needed changes when I don't see the question being of any real meaning.

Given how valuable Edge is, AR is kind of a big deal.

LOL
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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #21 on: <06-13-20/1235:22> »
My own preference for Spirits ItNW would be give them all Vulnerabilities or Allergies.  Knowledge and Preparation pay! 

Fire beats Grass, Water beats Fire, Rock beats Water... or wait, was that the other way around... and what beats Psy... is that even a type... and what the hell is Psyduck....

Anyway, give mundanes something to bypass ItNW that isn't great, but okay.  Neijia kind of does that but not really.  It does for Sammies with high enough Unarmed combat pools that they'll pick up some net hits to raise the DV and chip away at a Spirit.  But a burst fire weapon with explosive rounds would also chip away at most Spirits.

Never been a fan of the golf bag of tools method.

I'd honestly rather we worry less about a spirits defense and more about their output.  If spirits acted as PR1 mooks I wouldn't care that they were also virtually indestructible. The bigger problem IMO has always been a summonable creature is almost as deadly if not more deadly than your dedicated street sam,with a large bag of trick.(at least since 4e, I can't remember exactly how they played out in 1-3e)  Being impossible to kill was just gravy on top of that. Being super hard to kill by mundane means is a staple of the setting, I'd like to keep that. Being super deadly is the issue I'd like to change. I'd of ditched force, have the ability to summon lesser spirits, spirits and greater spirits. With PR ranges outside of something like 0-2, or 1-3.  Give them set stats. Don't allow the summoner to cherry pick optional powers.  Your spirit of that type and power level has what it has. Make the player have to purchase spirit types maybe a few free types based on your magic priority, bring back old school spirits.  Focus on elemental spirits for combat, city spirits, spirits of hearth etc for more utility.