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SR6 Neijia

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dougansf

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« on: <06-08-20/1602:55> »
Can someone clarify the intent behind Neijia technique found in Firing Squad pg 105?

Quote
You may make unarmed attacks against astral entities as though you were Awakened with a Damage Value of (WILL/2 + net hits). This technique does not give you the ability to perceive astrally or bond weapon foci.

I think it's intended to allow the user to treat unarmed as magic weapons for purposes of overcoming manifested spirit immunity.

It reads like it allows the user to attack unmanifested spirits, which mundanes can't detect.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: <06-08-20/1607:39> »
I wish I knew.

Way I read it: it only works on purely astral targets (which you can't see) and manifested entities (which can't hurt you).

Note that there's a world of difference between manifested and materialized. And whatever the intent may be, there's nothing saying it bypasses ItNW on materialized spirits.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #2 on: <06-08-20/1635:52> »
Deepweed and Astral Gateways?
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Reaver

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« Reply #3 on: <06-08-20/1644:51> »
The key words there are "astral entities" which I take to mean any being from the astral planes...
Which Spirits of all types qualify as. In short, it always you to attack spirits and deal damage, bypassing their ITNW,

But thats my reading.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #4 on: <06-08-20/1652:15> »
Well, there's still nothing saying "the damage counts as magical" nor do you actually perform an Astral Combat attack. And as a mundane, you wouldn't like your AR of 0 + N/A = 0, anyway if it WERE an Astral Combat attack.

Sure you can punch the materialized earth spirit, at DV WIL/2.  But you're vastly better off just not using the technique if it IS materialized.  Presumably you'll do more damage w/o it.
« Last Edit: <06-08-20/1654:47> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Hobbes

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« Reply #5 on: <06-08-20/1658:46> »
The key words there are "astral entities" which I take to mean any being from the astral planes...
Which Spirits of all types qualify as. In short, it always you to attack spirits and deal damage, bypassing their ITNW,

But thats my reading.

My reading as well.  Although, AR 0 DV of 2 is likely an inconsequential attack vs any Spirit with enough ITNW that your guns can't hurt it.

dougansf

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« Reply #6 on: <06-08-20/1722:08> »
Deepweed and Astral Gateways?

Deepweed doesn't help mundanes see the Astral.

Deepweed plus Neijia is a good combo to save Adepts some PP though.

Reaver

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« Reply #7 on: <06-08-20/1735:05> »
Well, there's still nothing saying "the damage counts as magical" nor do you actually perform an Astral Combat attack. And as a mundane, you wouldn't like your AR of 0 + N/A = 0, anyway if it WERE an Astral Combat attack.

Sure you can punch the materialized earth spirit, at DV WIL/2.  But you're vastly better off just not using the technique if it IS materialized.  Presumably you'll do more damage w/o it.

The "As though you were awakened" means that its magical... that's what "awakened" means :D
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #8 on: <06-08-20/1737:37> »
Well, there's still nothing saying "the damage counts as magical" nor do you actually perform an Astral Combat attack. And as a mundane, you wouldn't like your AR of 0 + N/A = 0, anyway if it WERE an Astral Combat attack.

Sure you can punch the materialized earth spirit, at DV WIL/2.  But you're vastly better off just not using the technique if it IS materialized.  Presumably you'll do more damage w/o it.

The "As though you were awakened" means that its magical... that's what "awakened" means :D

As though != exactly the same.

if it WERE an Astral Combat attack (and therefore "counting as magic" because it IS magic) you wouldn't use your usual AR.  Because Astral Combat uses a special AR. 

Now, I'm granting that the intent may very well prove that yes that it is intended to allow you to execute a *modified* Astral Combat attack with a new DV and a new AR.  But it absolutely doesn't SAY this.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Reaver

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« Reply #9 on: <06-08-20/1824:29> »
looks like you have some Errata to do...
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #10 on: <06-08-20/1828:56> »
Indeed :)
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

dougansf

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« Reply #11 on: <06-08-20/2257:03> »
Follow up question: can Neijia be combined with other martial art techniques, namely to increase DV?

Neijia + Flying Kick = DV of (WIL/2)+3

Hobbes

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« Reply #12 on: <06-08-20/2258:24> »
Flying Kick increases your Unarmed DV.  Neijia doesn't use your Unarmed DV.

Marcus

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« Reply #13 on: <06-08-20/2317:04> »
looks like you have some Errata to do...

Given that Neijia exist is this even meaningful?
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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #14 on: <06-09-20/0012:36> »
looks like you have some Errata to do...

Given that Neijia exist is this even meaningful?

I don't understand what you mean here.
I'd say the only flaw with neijia is it shouldn't be a martial art but the default, if there is a martial art around it it should improve the default. Attacks of will go back to 1e.

That being said, it works less well in 6e with static unarmed damage. In 1-3e(i don't remember how 4e/5e did it. It was a semi valid choice to go with but if you were buff enough a straight attack and just trying to overpower IRNW might be better.