NEWS

[SR5E] Grey cyberware

  • 5 Replies
  • 198 Views

Robber

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 2
« on: <06-07-20/0138:24> »
After reading all the threads, I'm still confused with this. So what does the official says about what cyberware counts as “obvious”?

Xenon

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 5667
« Reply #1 on: <06-07-20/0701:13> »
After reading all the threads, I'm still confused with this. So what does the official says about what cyberware counts as “obvious”?

What part of the following do you find unclear:

Quote from: Better than Bad p. 158 GreyWare
GreyWare always counts as obvious cyberware when
applicable and never provides wireless bonuses. If a piece of
cyberware cannot be obvious and has no wireless component,
it cannot be taken as GreyWare

Edit, let us look at a few examples:

Headware implants, for example, cannot be obvious and most of them does not provide wireless bonuses, so most of them they cannot be taken as GreyWare.

Cyberlimbs, for example, come in both obvious and non obvious versions. The obvious version can be taken as GreyWare while the non-obvious version cannot.

Dermal plating taken as GreyWare is clearly obvious even when you just look at it (while regular dermal plating is normally non-obvious when it comes to coloring and surface texture).

A fingertip compartment taken as GreyWare is clearly obvious (the compartment itself does no longer act as it have a -10 concealability modifier) and it always require a complex action to remove the item inside the compartment (instead of just a simple action as a non GreyWare wireless enabled fingertip compartment would have), but at least the item inside the compartment will still be completely concealed.
« Last Edit: <06-07-20/1531:25> by Xenon »

Robber

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 2
« Reply #2 on: <06-07-20/1259:30> »
I'm just confused with what is the defination of “obvious”here. Is it has to be some part that are outside the body so everyone can see it or as Stainless Steel Devil Rat says, “Any cyberware is potentially obvious if you just describe it as such.” so every cyberware counts?

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 3656
« Reply #3 on: <06-07-20/1340:50> »
I'm just confused with what is the defination of “obvious”here. Is it has to be some part that are outside the body so everyone can see it or as Stainless Steel Devil Rat says, “Any cyberware is potentially obvious if you just describe it as such.” so every cyberware counts?

There's definitely a "gray" area, pardon the pun.

Is wired reflexes obvious?  It's fluffed as making you exhibit tics and other nervous "tells".  That's one way it might be deemed "obvious".

Another definition of obvious might revolve around whether it has external components.  Who's to say that wired reflexes does not incorporate visible chrome going down the back of your neck/spine?

As far as the book/official answer goes, it's basically best thought of as an agnostic "whatever your GM says counts" counts.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 3656
« Reply #4 on: <06-07-20/1537:23> »
Yes, but a list of cyberware that satisfies the "must be obvious" clause is going to have to go to GM discretion. 

Can bone lacing be "obvious"?  I'd say probably not, but there's certainly a valid argument for saying a potential GW bone lacing imposes a lattice so thick that it can be seen under the skin in places like your forehead.

What IS an example of a piece of cyberware that objectively "cannot be obvious"?  Even a fingertip compartment can be made to be visually obvious, even though generally that'd be counter-productive. 

The only objectively enforceable clause is "has no wireless component".  The measure of being/not being obvious is pretty much objectively it has to be (obvious cyberlimbs... it's literally in the name!) and everything else is fuzzy/GM adjudication.


Frankly, imo the best way to look at eligibility is to just end up saying  virtually ANY cyberware can be greyware.  It's just that if you DO use an implant of that grade, it's something that must be  obviously there and doesn't even need a cyberware scanner to detect.  Like Bone Lacing that's putting a lattice pattern on your forehead, and etc.
« Last Edit: <06-07-20/1608:23> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Sphinx

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 801
« Reply #5 on: <06-11-20/1121:17> »
Frankly, imo the best way to look at eligibility is to just end up saying  virtually ANY cyberware can be greyware.  It's just that if you DO use an implant of that grade, it's something that must be  obviously there and doesn't even need a cyberware scanner to detect.  Like Bone Lacing that's putting a lattice pattern on your forehead, and etc.

I tend to agree with SSDR. Any cyberware could be greyware (Better Than Bad, p.158), but it would lose any wireless benefit and be immediately obvious to casual perception. Metal plates, geometric scars, cables visible under the skin, discoloration, and so on.