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[SR5] Trodes and Weapon Mods

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Hanzo

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« on: <06-06-20/1007:37> »
I've studied several threads but still don't get the idea of the Trodes. How do the work?

I understand that get you DNI. But by which means? Via Matrix? Via cable connection?
So just by wearing trodes you get yourself a direct connection to the Matrix w/o any additional device like commlink or cyberdeck or RCC. Or do your need to connect the trodes with any other device to get DNI with it? If the answer is "yes", then how many devices can you connect to youseft with this thing? If you want to say "as many a you want" that can ruin the idea of PAN 'cause DNI is unhackable. Yeah, you don't get wireless bonuses, but the firearms DNI bonus (Eject Clip as a Free action) can also save Actions but w/o spending money on smartgun and smartlink systems.

And another question is:
When I want to get the Laser Sight wireless bonus, do I need to get a gun the Sight is on also to the Matrix? That's a little bit wierd but saves PAN slots. I know that ordinary gun doesn't get much of the wireless bonuses, but nevertheless.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: <06-06-20/1017:47> »
You still need to combine the trodes with a commlink, cyberdeck, or RCC.  The DNI lets you interface with AR via neural input.  So not only can you issue commands to your gear via thought, AR input goes right to your brain so it also replicates the effects of image link, sound link, smell link, tactile link, etc.  Most people don't go to the bother of implanting smell/taste mods, so using DNI is how most people experience virtual restaurant meals.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Xenon

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« Reply #2 on: <06-06-20/1041:25> »
To interact with the matrix at its most basic level you can for example physically press buttons on your commlink, use the camera of the commlink, watch the screen of your commlink and listen to the built-in speaker of your commlink. You know, like people used smartphones back in 2020 when using various AR apps.

You can also interact with your commlink and with it the rest of the matrix by wearing AR goggles (think hololense), and wearing an AR glove to interact with augmented reality objects and listen via wireless earbuds. This way you don't have to physically touch your commlink (or whatever device you use 'to access the matrix' with).

The third level of AR interaction with the matrix is by by wearing trodes or implanting a datajack. That way you get to interact with your commlink directly with your brains without any additional devices. This is called direct neural interface. And if your commlink also have a SIM module then you also get to feel, smell and even taste your AR experience.

DNI is also required (together with a a device to access the matrix with such as commlink, RCC or cyberdeck and you also need a SIM module which comes as default with cyberdeck, commlink can be modded with and is provided by the control rig if you are using a RCC) if you also ever want to go into full ragdoll VR mode.

Hanzo

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« Reply #3 on: <06-06-20/1104:14> »
You still need to combine the trodes with a commlink, cyberdeck, or RCC.  The DNI lets you interface with AR via neural input.  So not only can you issue commands to your gear via thought, AR input goes right to your brain so it also replicates the effects of image link, sound link, smell link, tactile link, etc.  Most people don't go to the bother of implanting smell/taste mods, so using DNI is how most people experience virtual restaurant meals.

So what's the way to combine the trodes and a Commlink? Via the Matrix, like to wireless devices? Or like an oldschool earbuds with 3.5 mini-jack and a smartphone, i.e. cable connection?

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #4 on: <06-06-20/1119:36> »
It's the wireless matrix.  They connect via wireless!
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Banshee

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« Reply #5 on: <06-06-20/1121:56> »
You still need to combine the trodes with a commlink, cyberdeck, or RCC.  The DNI lets you interface with AR via neural input.  So not only can you issue commands to your gear via thought, AR input goes right to your brain so it also replicates the effects of image link, sound link, smell link, tactile link, etc.  Most people don't go to the bother of implanting smell/taste mods, so using DNI is how most people experience virtual restaurant meals.

So what's the way to combine the trodes and a Commlink? Via the Matrix, like to wireless devices? Or like an oldschool earbuds with 3.5 mini-jack and a smartphone, i.e. cable connection?

Closest you will come to a real world analogy is that the trodes are a Bluetooth headset/ear buds.
The trodes are what let's you interact with your commlink via wireless DNI, the commlink is what interacts with the matrix.
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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Former RPG Lead Agent
Catalyst Demo Team

Xenon

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« Reply #6 on: <06-07-20/0807:34> »
So what's the way to combine the trodes and a Commlink? Via the Matrix, like to wireless devices? Or like an oldschool earbuds with 3.5 mini-jack and a smartphone, i.e. cable connection?
The default connection method in SR5 is wireless, as SSDR already said.

...but a datajack also comes with a 1 meter retractable cable which can be used to interface with your commlink directly (or with your smartgun if you have an internal smartlink but don't want to make use of all the wireless bonuses a wireless enabled smartgun system normally give you or to another person's datajack if you wish 'to conduct a private mental communication immune to radio interception or eavesdropping').

penllawen

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« Reply #7 on: <06-07-20/0837:26> »
The third level of AR interaction with the matrix is by by wearing trodes or implanting a datajack. That way you get to interact with your commlink directly with your brains without any additional devices. This is called direct neural interface. And if your commlink also have a SIM module then you also get to feel, smell and even taste your AR experience.
An interesting followup question to this is "why does anyone get a datajack implanted if trodes are just as good and a lot cheaper (both nuyen and essence)?" Mechanically, I do not believe RAW offers any explanation for this. You could argue the bit about how datajacks can be plugged in to avoid noise, but most of the time noise isn't a significant factor if something is within arm's length of your datajack.

(In my canon, I say that trodes are easily jostled and lose signal, so are a pain the arse for anyone who isn't sat fairly still. I also say they are less engaging/immersive/compelling than a datajack, although I keep that pure fluff, with no mechanics to back it up.)

(As I type this, I realise I'm not sure if, canonically, you can hotsim with 'trodes. I would disallow that, personally.)

Hobbes

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« Reply #8 on: <06-07-20/0853:12> »
Datajack gives you a point of stack-able Noise reduction in 5E.  'Trodes don't.  They were basically cheap Noise reduction.

penllawen

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« Reply #9 on: <06-07-20/0855:15> »
Datajack gives you a point of stack-able Noise reduction in 5E.  'Trodes don't.  They were basically cheap Noise reduction.
Do civilians care about one point of noise reduction?

Canon is that datajacks are very common, right?

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #10 on: <06-07-20/0909:35> »
Datajack gives you a point of stack-able Noise reduction in 5E.  'Trodes don't.  They were basically cheap Noise reduction.
Do civilians care about one point of noise reduction?

Canon is that datajacks are very common, right?

There are plenty of non-criminal applications for rigging and controlling drones.

And while Noise mechanically only ends up affecting illegal matrix tests, legit matrix use still suffers latency/choppiness/buffering/etc that doesn't rise to the threshold of dice penalties. Gaming enthusiasts, stock market riders, people in high stakes VR business meetings, and etc all have legit interest in reducing the other-than-dice-penalty effects of Noise.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

penllawen

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« Reply #11 on: <06-07-20/0914:25> »
And while Noise mechanically only ends up affecting illegal matrix tests, legit matrix use still suffers latency/choppiness/buffering/etc that doesn't rise to the threshold of dice penalties.
Sounds like you could say that
Mechanically, I do not believe RAW offers any explanation for this.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #12 on: <06-07-20/0923:26> »
Indeed. And that:

Do civilians care about one point of noise reduction?

Yes, the same sorts of civilians who care about latency now would care about reducing Noise in the Sixth World.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Xenon

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« Reply #13 on: <06-07-20/0950:31> »
why does anyone get a datajack implanted if trodes are just as good and a lot cheaper (both nuyen and essence)?
The incentive of using a datajack is now (besides the reasons I already listed in my previous post) is that it provide you with a point of noise reduction (like Hobbes said) which mechanically mean you get to keep your wireless bonuses in spam or static zones where perhaps you would lose it otherwise and you take one less dice penalty when remote controlling your car or when hacking a device out on the grids - but also when performing other matrix actions, such as searching the matrix for intel/legwork.



...I'm not sure if, canonically, you can hotsim with 'trodes. I would disallow that, personally.
In earlier editions you connected your cyberdeck with a fiber optic cable to the junction box or device etc and then you also connected it to its user either via an electrode net that slips over the head (which gave you limitations but was more safe - the way of cowards, aka 'tortoises'), or with direct cybernetic interface through a datajack (which you could say gave you the hot-sim equivalent we have today - the only way to fly).

In 5th edition the matrix is wireless (that transition already started in the 4th edition) and there is no longer any real difference between VR by using DNI from wearing trodes or from implanting a datajack, a control rig, a commlink or a cyberdeck (or a cyberjack that came in the next edition).

Instead now you access the matrix via AR (the way of cowards - aka 'tortoises') or via cold-sim VR (the 'normal' way) or via hot-sim VR (the only way to fly).



Do civilians care about one point of noise reduction?
Do mundane civilians care about 0.1 essence reduction...?
And most datajacks that wageslaves have were probably payed for by their company anyway.... ;-)

Sphinx

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« Reply #14 on: <06-11-20/1107:12> »
(As I type this, I realise I'm not sure if, canonically, you can hotsim with 'trodes. I would disallow that, personally.)

There's nothing official, but it's a house rule at my table: Trodes only support "cold" simsense. Hot sim requires a datajack.