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[SR6] Nocking Arrow Action economy

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Habeam

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« on: <06-05-20/0410:09> »
Hi everyone !

I try to find my answer on the net and searching through this forum, but i didn't get it for the shadowrun 6th edition, so i'm asking it :

Does the action Nocking Arrow take a Minor Action "Ready Weapon", or a Major Action "Ready Weapon" ?

The core rule book p250 (Gear - Bow) say :  "Nocking an arrow takes a Minor Action(Ready Weapon, p. 43)."
But when you go p43, Ready Weapon is describe as a Major Action.

So is it, for this particular case, a Minor Action ? Or the Core rule book has a mistake p250 (Minor instead of Major)

To go further, in combat, assuming the PC has only one Major Action and 1 Minor Action, will it go like this :


EXAMPLE 1
Combat Start
1 Major Action to Ready Weapon (Bow)

Turn 1
1 Minor Action to nocking Arrow (Ready Weapon)
1 Major Action to shoot arrow (Attack)

Turn 2
1 Minor Action to nocking Arrow (Ready Weapon)
1 Major Action to shoot arrow (Attack)

or like this :

EXAMPLE 2
Combat Start
1 Major Action to Ready Weapon (Bow)

Turn 1
1 Major Action to nocking arrow (Ready Weapon)

Turn 2
1 Major Action to shoot arrow (Attack)



I didn't see any erratum clarifying this in the august 2019 erratum.


Thanks for your time clarifying this :) !



PS : Forgive my english, it's not my mother tongue.



Michael Chandra

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« Reply #1 on: <06-05-20/0522:45> »
(A character has a minimum of 2 Minor Actions: 1 base, +1 per Initiative Die, and everyone has at least 1 Initiative Die.)

No errata/clarification that I can find, January PDF is same and February Errata don't change anything either.

One could interpret p250 as overriding p43 (specific trumps generic), making nocking an Arrow a Minor Action. It's also possible to go 'Ready is a Major, but it's like Shuriken, so you ready multiple arrows in your off-hand, then firing them is part of the Attack Action'.
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Hobbes

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« Reply #2 on: <06-05-20/0833:30> »
I would go with specific trumps general for Arrows.  Example 1 is correct, as far as Action costs go. 


Lormyr

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« Reply #3 on: <06-05-20/0843:30> »
Also, game the system: there is absolutely no reason you cannot ready weapon your bow and have an arrow knocked before initiative is rolled. In our stress test our grenade junky readied two (one for each hand) after every combat ended. It saved him a ton of actions on the opening round.
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling

Hobbes

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« Reply #4 on: <06-05-20/0848:19> »
Yes, if you're expecting Combat, Bow and Arrow would be Ready beforehand typically.  Just like any weapon really. 

Tecumseh

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« Reply #5 on: <06-05-20/1321:53> »
Bows are somewhat unique in that they have two components to make ready: the bow and the arrow.

If you're readying the bow, that would take a Major action.

If you're readying an arrow, I would use the specific rule on p. 250 to make it a Minor action.

So, like the others, I would use Example #1 as well.

Xenon

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« Reply #6 on: <06-05-20/1510:06> »
The rule structure in Shadowrun (any edition) is that you first have a general blanket statement (unless otherwise explicitly stated). Then you might have one or more explicit exceptions to this rule.

The general blanket statement in this case is that Ready Weapon is typically a Major Action (unless an explicit rule says otherwise). Then on p. 250 you have an explicit rule that state that specifically nocking an arrow is a Minor Action.

Quote from: SR5 p. 250 Bow
Nocking an arrow takes a Minor Action...

But for completion sake the Ready Weapon Major Action should probably have included a [redundant] clarification that Nocking an arrow is just a Minor action. This would have increased readability but it does not actually change the outcome.

Example 1 is the correct one.

Habeam

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« Reply #7 on: <06-05-20/1731:44> »
Thank you all to make it clearer. :)

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #8 on: <06-06-20/1653:36> »
The rule structure in Shadowrun (any edition) is that you first have a general blanket statement (unless otherwise explicitly stated). Then you might have one or more explicit exceptions to this rule.

The general blanket statement in this case is that Ready Weapon is typically a Major Action (unless an explicit rule says otherwise). Then on p. 250 you have an explicit rule that state that specifically nocking an arrow is a Minor Action.

Quote from: SR5 p. 250 Bow
Nocking an arrow takes a Minor Action...

But for completion sake the Ready Weapon Major Action should probably have included a [redundant] clarification that Nocking an arrow is just a Minor action. This would have increased readability but it does not actually change the outcome.

Example 1 is the correct one.

I agree with what you are saying, but if you want to make an exception you make it clear. In this case they should have just dropped the (ready weapon) part just say. The core rule book p250 (Gear - Bow) say :  Nocking an arrow takes a Minor Action.

If they want it to be a ready weapon action that happens to be a minor action instead fo the normal rule you say The core rule book p250 (Gear - Bow) say :  Nocking an arrow takes a Minor Action instead of the normal major action for a ready weapon action(Ready Weapon, p. 43).

Especially with how consistently bad the editing is, it makes it hard to know if its just a editing error or a intended exception.

Anyway I like everyone else here would go with a minor action to nock a arrow, mainly because that would just be idiotic otherwise.

Xenon

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« Reply #9 on: <06-07-20/0650:24> »
And I agree with what you are saying.

Cutting text that could be clarifying (but could also be seen as redundant because the removal of it doesn't actually directly contradict the intended outcome) seem to be a thing they focused on a lot in this edition.

The reason might have been to shrink the size of the rule book and by doing that perhaps the intention was that the book would get easier to digest and understand. But in reality this mean many rules instead became ambiguous and harder to understand, not easier (which is why we also get threads like this).

I personally don't like this trend we seen in the last few editions and would much rather see the return of the language, the structure and the consistency used in some of the earlier editions (such as the revisited 20th anniversary edition of Shadowrun 4e).