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State of 6e today

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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #240 on: <07-04-20/1913:43> »
Now personally since magic has unlimited advancement and mundanes don't...
Perhaps a better solution would be to limit magic advancement ;-)

I can see why that might be a good idea on some level but if someone wants to do a 12 year campaign I don't feel the need to put hard limits on their advancement.  I'd rather the table determine when they think they have leveled up enough and want to retire the characters.

Reaver

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« Reply #241 on: <07-04-20/1922:26> »
Now personally since magic has unlimited advancement and mundanes don't...
Perhaps a better solution would be to limit magic advancement ;-)

That's a possibility.
You would have to be careful however.
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

dezmont

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« Reply #242 on: <07-04-20/2329:27> »
To shamelessly self promote, shadowrun 5.5.2 includes a cap on magic+initiation (Globally, I don't care if your a great dragon spirits above force 10 get dumb and you don't get them), a method to allow adepts to re-spec, a fundemental change to ally spirit (because its so cool and literally my favorite metamagic but its so insanely degenerate), a change to buff spells to make them less 'selfish,' and unshackling metamagics from your initiation score so your not forced to go into the 'utility' ones at the expense of the thematic ones.

For good measure, here is 5.5.1 which trims the skill list, buffs clubs, buffs melee, nerfs some burnout adept choices, gives technos vital QoL options at the start of the game, helps riggers defend the drone they are controling so they have more parity with street samurai, nerfs psyche (which is easily one of the biggest balance offenders in the entire game), gives the combat spell category some love, and re-orders the adept 'power and metamagic' trees so they aren't forced to get as many dead weight options as well as buffing some adept powers that are needed for pure adepts to uhh... work....
« Last Edit: <07-04-20/2332:58> by dezmont »

penllawen

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« Reply #243 on: <07-05-20/0449:54> »
I would like to endorse that self-promotion. I have long had both of those bookmarked, and routinely scan them for ideas for my own houserules. There's tons of great stuff in there.

Darksithmstr

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« Reply #244 on: <07-20-20/1755:25> »
Still flawed but as we get more expansions it adds more dimensions.  I still feel it is infinitely more playable then previous editions, which i tried to figure out.  The balance is there in different ways than other editions, but the key is piece together the rules, I made a document that compiles all the numbers and simplifies so I am not constantly finding a page in the book. 
See u in the Matrix!

wraith

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« Reply #245 on: <07-24-20/0334:27> »
I personally take no offense
:)

...the ultimate 'problem' with essence is that it presupposed some sort of essential baseline humanity that altering 'perverted.' So it was ultimately a form of 'purity language' common to prejudicial thinking, regardless of if that was intentional.
The original intent seem to be that essence represented Tech vs Metahumanity.
The more implants you get the less 'metahuman' you seem to be.
You started acting more 'robot' like. Less emotional. Impact on social tests.

But then you had the whole argument if it was fair if a handicapped person that perhaps lost a foot in a tragic accident would suddenly be considered less 'human' or less social because he or she got a mechanical foot replacement. Not very PC if you put it that way (similar to the other discussion we had above).

So, Right or Wrong, now Essence instead seem to reflect Tech vs Magic.
The more implants you get the less aligned with magic you seem to be.
You become harder to heal or magically receive increased reflexes or magically resist pain etc.
No longer any social impact at all.

I never felt the social aspect was a good gain as it wasn't something people were really going to role play out.  They'd play their street sam how they wanted to. But, I never minded the essence loss and I wish they had played into the mysticism of it more. With your amputee example, I'd have used the example of phantom limbs explained as the astral form and that when they were astrally perceived people would still see the limb, if they could project they would still have it. But when it was replaced with cyber that part of the astral form was suppressed.

I always wish they'd enhance even further the tech vs magic aspect of the setting and the rules, or more accurately have the rules act like the original setting implied. while there is a penalty to heal with magic for weakened essence I'd of given a penalty to first aid equal to a characters magic rating similar to editions 1-3?. Make sure the costs are heavy enough the bio/adept isn't just the better choice. I'm not talking nuyen but mechanical costs. On the magic vs tech side I really wish all spells were labeled as either indirect or direct, indirect spells avoiding object resistance tests, direct spells going against them. Too much confusion without it. As a quick example the spell levitate sets up its own test system, some people apply object resistance on top of that, some don't. Labeling the spell either indirect or direct would answer that.

Now personally since magic has unlimited advancement and mundanes don't I'd of built into the rules for mundanes something like what penllawen suggests above in his transhumanism post. And explain it as they are adapting to the tech and it is becoming part of their living astral form,  Mechanically I'd have it track cost wise similar to initiation/magic gain.

Honestly, I always preferred players not roleplay too heavily into the 'low essence makes you a murderbot' stuff.  It was already hard enough riding herd on That Guy who makes the Impulsive/Vindictive/Distinctive Style sam and then leans into the pink mohawk at all times, no matter the game.

penllawen

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« Reply #246 on: <07-24-20/1049:40> »
Honestly, I always preferred players not roleplay too heavily into the 'low essence makes you a murderbot' stuff.  It was already hard enough riding herd on That Guy who makes the Impulsive/Vindictive/Distinctive Style sam and then leans into the pink mohawk at all times, no matter the game.
Same. Plus I think it’s a really tired trope that all too often leads to one-dimensional characters. You can have the Terminator or Adam “I Never Asked For This” Jensen.

wraith

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« Reply #247 on: <07-25-20/0435:10> »
Honestly, I always preferred players not roleplay too heavily into the 'low essence makes you a murderbot' stuff.  It was already hard enough riding herd on That Guy who makes the Impulsive/Vindictive/Distinctive Style sam and then leans into the pink mohawk at all times, no matter the game.
Same. Plus I think it’s a really tired trope that all too often leads to one-dimensional characters. You can have the Terminator or Adam “I Never Asked For This” Jensen.

Yeah.  I think the only cool use of it was in Dragonfall, and even then it wasn't dehumanization so much as magic suppression from essence loss that mattered.

markelphoenix

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« Reply #248 on: <07-25-20/0921:25> »
Honestly, I always preferred players not roleplay too heavily into the 'low essence makes you a murderbot' stuff.  It was already hard enough riding herd on That Guy who makes the Impulsive/Vindictive/Distinctive Style sam and then leans into the pink mohawk at all times, no matter the game.
Same. Plus I think it’s a really tired trope that all too often leads to one-dimensional characters. You can have the Terminator or Adam “I Never Asked For This” Jensen.

I actually really like the "I never asked for this" type. Looking forward to/hoping certain qualities come back, such as Corp Sinner, Day Job, Celebrity, etc. Play Corp SINned celebrity that got seriously harmed when runners tried to abduct you. Runners escaped, but you took serious damage. Part of the patch up, the corp decided having you a bit better able to defend yourself would be a worth while investment, given the amount of Nuyen you bring in....that and your side tasks of the occasional act of espionage given the access your celebrity gives you to certain high officials in different government and corporations. Reasons for going double life into the Shadows? To get some answers! Want to find out who hired those 'Runners to nab you and why...what you do from there, well depends on what the answers are.

Seether

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« Reply #249 on: <07-28-20/1003:37> »
Quote
Honestly, I always preferred players not roleplay too heavily into the 'low essence makes you a murderbot' stuff.  It was already hard enough riding herd on That Guy who makes the Impulsive/Vindictive/Distinctive Style sam and then leans into the pink mohawk at all times, no matter the game.

I have made a few characters like that.  For me, I was playing into the horror of that situation of going too far instead of being just a murderhobosam.  I did something during a firefight that was a little too far and afterwards, one of my teammates came up to me and went, "We were supposed to disable them, not chop them up into little pieces.  That man had family!" --- Or something along those lines.  I could have taken her statement one of two ways:  I could shrug it off and act like an ass and be more pink mohawk, or I could take a split second and have that .0000000004 essence creep up and go, "Dude, seriously.  Instead of handling the problem the way it was planned, you put a huge target on the backs of not just you, but your whole team."

It was a bit (a lot) more fleshed out in the heat of the moment.  I went with the tiny bit of essence side of me.  I like exploring the impact we have on each other and the environments around us as part of my forays into cyberpunk meets magic meets fantasy races games.  Brings me closer to the dystopian future vibe.  I do it in DnD, too... And I promise I'm not always the Paladin.  8)

Oh yeah, back to the main discussion:  Yeah, 6e is all janky and stuff.  I'mma go back to the only 3e campaign that's been running since like 2000.

penllawen

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« Reply #250 on: <07-28-20/1435:26> »
For me, I was playing into the horror of that situation of going too far instead of being just a murderhobosam.
Then you're one of the good 'uns, and on behalf of all SR GMs, I raise a glass to you!

markelphoenix

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« Reply #251 on: <07-31-20/2315:19> »
Was disappointed no magic book announcement for gencon

FastJack

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« Reply #252 on: <08-01-20/1132:21> »
Was disappointed no magic book announcement for gencon
It's coming, but not before next year. Shadowrun is more closely tied to actual print books then BattleTech is, especially for core plot and rule books.

markelphoenix

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« Reply #253 on: <08-01-20/1143:56> »
Was disappointed no magic book announcement for gencon
It's coming, but not before next year. Shadowrun is more closely tied to actual print books then BattleTech is, especially for core plot and rule books.

Sad news. With the Covid lock down, surprise there isn't a stronger industry shift to pdf.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #254 on: <08-01-20/1229:38> »
once upon a time, before covid, the plan was for Rigger book to be out now at Gen Con.

The economic mayhem set everything back. 
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.