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Motion Sense Adpet Power vs Spirits

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Bad.Dremas

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« on: <05-31-20/1446:49> »
So I was wonder what all your thoughts were on the motion sense adept power working against spirits. I understand that flavor text is often just flavor text but;

"...the adept feels the movement of people, animals, or objects by their displacement of air molecules, changes in ambient barometric pressure, vibrations, or the minute disruption of the local mana field(emphasis mine)." -SG 172

To me this would indicate that, regardless if you are astrally perceiving or not, you would be able to tell that something(the spirit) is moving around you, even if it ins't materialized. Is this just me stretching the description of the ability beyond reasonable?

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #1 on: <05-31-20/1451:57> »
Mrm, Idunno. To detect astral things, you need to be astrally perceiving. Different planes don't easily affect each other. On the other hand, detecting magic can be 'shiver just went down my spine, maybe an aura just moved through me'.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #2 on: <05-31-20/1504:56> »
I can see it the OP's way, but let me explain.

I think one has to establish what the adept (or a mundane) can perceive even without benefit of this power, before you can decide what extra capability that power grants.

The rules for Perceiving Magic in 5th edition is on page 280 of SR5.  Per the very first paragraph, arguably even mundanes can potentially perceive the presence of astrally floating spirits.

So, if one subscribes to the "fluff/flavor text" being literally true in at least some cases:

Quote
Spirits sometimes cause the
air to shimmer, even from astral space. People have reported
feeling chills, dread, or other unnatural sensations
they can’t quite put their finger on when magic is
in the area.

then it sure sounds to me like this power should be able to work even in the absence of astral perception. 

RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Reaver

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« Reply #3 on: <05-31-20/1645:03> »
this is one of those cases whete a GM is going to have to make a call, as there is support for both sides....

Its not outside the realm of possiblities, but range would probably be a big factor.
Spirit moves 'near' you (say 3 meters), yea you might detect that....

Spirit moves in a room 3 doors down from you.... probably not.
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Tecumseh

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« Reply #4 on: <06-01-20/0127:41> »
The adept power Magic Sense would absolutely detect a spirit, so I don't see any issue with adept powers (in general) detecting spirits even if the adept isn't astrally perceiving.

As for Motion Sense specifically, I played a PC with it for years and it was so worthless due to the limited range that (as a GM) I would absolutely allow it to detect a spirit moving nearby on the astral plane. It has to do something to be worth half a power point, otherwise you should just take Magic Sense (one of the most underrated powers) or Combat Sense instead.

Bad.Dremas

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« Reply #5 on: <06-01-20/0127:59> »
Well, yes range would be a factor, as the adept power is only effective out to a radius equal to your magic rating.

Xenon

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« Reply #6 on: <06-01-20/0457:54> »
Magic is rarely subtle and leave marks on the physical plane that you may detect with a regular perception test (the 'numinous' specialization applies to this and if you are an awakened character yourself you sometimes also gain a positive dice pool modifier to this test).

One situation that is explicitly called out when you get to take a regular physical perception test is for example if a spirit (or other wholly astral entity) pass through your aura (even if you are mundane and have no way to perceive the astral).

I find it highly plausible that an adept with the Motion Sense power get to sense a spirit moving on the astral plane within Magic rating meters around them. If you ask me this seem to be supported by both RAW and RAI (but since it is not explicitly called out I guess this can be debated)


Quote from: SG p. 172 Motion Sense
Through a combination of natural and magical senses, the adept feels the movement of people, animals, or objects by their displacement of air molecules, changes in ambient barometric pressure, vibrations, or the minute disruption of the local mana field. This feeling alerts the adept to movement around her equal to (Magic) meters and can be used to detect living beings or objects that would otherwise be hidden by normal senses such as sight, sound, or smell.
Quote from: SR5 p. 280 Perceiving Magic
Magic is rarely subtle. Any form of magic (conjuring, spellcasting, enchanting, magical lodges, spirits, etc.) changes the world around it... Spirits sometimes cause the air to shimmer, even from astral space. People have reported feeling chills, dread, or other unnatural sensations they can’t quite put their finger on when magic is in the area.
Quote from: SR5 p. 314 Astral Detection
Physical beings may sense when an astral form passes through their aura. Make a Perception + Intuition (4) [Mental] Test—you receive a +2 dice pool bonus if you’re Awakened. If the test is successful, the character feels slightly breathless, and they experience a chill or tingling sensation from the passing of the astral form. Security personnel are trained to recognize this feeling as a sign of an astral intruder. This specialization of Perception is called Numinous Perception, which includes both the chilly tingle of astral forms and the “bad vibes” of noticing magic (p. 280).
« Last Edit: <06-01-20/0503:11> by Xenon »