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Technomancers and forced matrix ejection

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Hobbes

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« Reply #15 on: <05-29-20/1539:00> »
The power button on my phone literally pops up a window with options.  I've got to use the touch screen to select an option.  There is no electro-mechanical switch to turn off or on my phone.  I could yank out the battery or hit it with a hammer. 

Same with Laptops.  The Power Button could be your Space bar if you wanted.  Or the Space bar could be your Power button.  Same thing.  You can yank the battery or hit it with a hammer if you want.

Reaver

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« Reply #16 on: <05-29-20/1552:55> »
So, when Jon buys a Trideo from Kongmart. Its Just On....
While hes packing through to his car  its just on...
While driving home, trideo playing in the back seat... cause its just on...
Lugging up the stairs.... its just on....



Oh I see!!!
In 2080  we have thrown 200 years of SAFETY and circuit design out the window (yes, circuirts predate electricity!)
Not to mention 130 years of electrical SAFETY and design along with it!!!


There are some very REAL reasons why shit have an off button....

Lets start small. Your blender.....

Without that off button, what is going to stop those spinning blades when Timmy puts his fingers in the bowl????

Now, a little bigger..... it sure would be nice if you could stop the EM interferrance from yoyr cellohone, so you know, YOUR PACE MAKER CAN FUNCTION!! But really, a bearing heart is sooo over rated...

And geee.... if only we had a way to stop those FISSION fuel rods from exiting the chamber.... guess we just critical....


And those are just the smart ass ones off the top of my head....
Servicing.
Repairs,
Upgrades.

All good reasons to have a PHYSICAL way of disconnect, so you don't end up taking 3 amps across the heart.... (16 times the lethal limit, yet can come ftom a WATCH BATTERY in critical fault.... which happens more then you realize...)
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Reaver

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« Reply #17 on: <05-29-20/1602:48> »
The power button on my phone literally pops up a window with options.  I've got to use the touch screen to select an option.  There is no electro-mechanical switch to turn off or on my phone.  I could yank out the battery or hit it with a hammer. 

Same with Laptops.  The Power Button could be your Space bar if you wanted.  Or the Space bar could be your Power button.  Same thing.  You can yank the battery or hit it with a hammer if you want.

hold the button for 30 seconds.

Or, if on a Samsung s10, Down volume + power button for 7 seconds.
« Last Edit: <05-29-20/1606:43> by Reaver »
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Hobbes

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« Reply #18 on: <05-29-20/1612:01> »
Don't disagree.  But Laptops and Phones don't have an electro-mechanical on/off switch that the user toggles.  The power buttons are mapped to software functions that can absolutely be re-mapped to different software functions, or nothing at all even.

Ye-olde desktop PCs still might have a physical rocker switch or something.  Personally I haven't had one of those in several years, couldn't tell you for sure.

Hell, even cars don't have mechanical on/off switches anymore.  Or at least not mechanical switches a typical user would access, there are obviously mechanical things going on under the hood.  You'd need to ask Toyota how many people that wound up killing, and new cars still have the dumb ass button start.  Totally a marketing gimmick, press a button or turn a key, really is it that hard to turn a car key?

Hilarious side note, older cars were push button starts.  At least once they got batteries figured out.  Keyed ignitions came later.  Car doors had keys

Reaver

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« Reply #19 on: <05-29-20/1731:44> »
Don't disagree.  But Laptops and Phones don't have an electro-mechanical on/off switch that the user toggles.  The power buttons are mapped to software functions that can absolutely be re-mapped to different software functions, or nothing at all even.
Yes, they do. They use a filament system. (this was all covered in the long post that got nuked...) Look in your manual, there WILL be a 2 or 3 key press system that will power down your system. Trust me its there.

Why is it there? Because of the reasons I mentioned above. AND the fact that they are required (by LAW!) to include one. OR just tell me your system model No and serial, and I will look it up myself and tell you.
What happens if your system hangs and you can not access the interface? You just sit there for 5 days waiting for the battery to drain? Unplug the battery, risking an Arc Fault?

Ye-olde desktop PCs still might have a physical rocker switch or something.  Personally I haven't had one of those in several years, couldn't tell you for sure.
They are not giant red toggle buttons you flick up and down like a light switch! (ok, yes in the 80s they were!). If you have a DESKTOP, with a POWER SUPPLY... you technically have 2. The one in the front of your case that you push to "wake it up" (or hold it in... and *gasp* the power goes off!).. there is also a toggle on the supply itself (to comply with SCC /CSA/EUSA regulations on all power converters/amplifiers/and nonlinear transformers.)

Hell, even cars don't have mechanical on/off switches anymore.  Or at least not mechanical switches a typical user would access, there are obviously mechanical things going on under the hood.  You'd need to ask Toyota how many people that wound up killing, and new cars still have the dumb ass button start.  Totally a marketing gimmick, press a button or turn a key, really is it that hard to turn a car key?



Press the break, push the button for 7 seconds to disable the electrical system to root function (CPU only). Listen for the honk. (2017 Ford titanium F150)

Also with the button start system are 3 extra switches and system for safety.

What do you think happens when you push that button in your car??? What happens EXACTLY?
When you push the start the button (An NORMALLY OPEN function), you complete an electrical circuirt and close a hold... you know what... picture time! next post.

 
Hilarious side note, older cars were push button starts.  At least once they got batteries figured out.  Keyed ignitions came later.  Car doors had keys

They were also crank overs to start as well... Nothing like trying to move a bunch of pistions by hand and the compression force required for the igniters to burn the fuel with enough pressure to take the system over!

Even more fun when try to do it on a 750kw Genny from the 1940s.. 
« Last Edit: <05-29-20/1737:25> by Reaver »
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Reaver

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« Reply #20 on: <05-29-20/1816:19> »
This the simplest diagram I can find...

the flow of electricity is from left to right (important!). As you can see, the stop button is closed, allowing electricity to flow past it... and stops...
Why?
Because the the start button has yet to be pressed, thus the circuit has an open, and electricity WILL NOT FLOW. (AKA, your computer won't turn on!).

Once the start button is pushed, there is a connection for electricity to flow, and hit the relay coil, allowing the contacts to close, and electricity to flow and thus power your computer.....

like I said... this is the SIMPLEST system...
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Reaver

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« Reply #21 on: <05-29-20/1824:58> »
Now, An ACTUAL button start wiring diagram.....

This is right from Ford.... Can you spot the Starter? Can you spot the contacts?

AND, can you spot WHY you would want a physical disconnect in the system? I'll give you a clue... 2 numbers with an A after them,


this circuit (which physically is really quite small) contains enough energy to kill 21 people in a single go!


Now, the system is cluttered up with delay action resistors, and temperature filaments, diodes and caps, but its all there... right down to the physical disconnect.

« Last Edit: <05-29-20/1826:53> by Reaver »
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Scythe Massakur

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« Reply #22 on: <05-31-20/2116:43> »
I'm not sure I understand the question, as pulling someone out of the matrix is not required to do first aid/medkit.

Are you asking about a context like "OMG, he's getting his ass kicked by the IC, I'm pulling the plug on him"?  Because if so... yeah you can't do that with a Living Persona.  Aside from knocking him unconscious yourself.  But dumpshock might kill him...

I was put under the impression that technomancers that take damage in the Matrix take damage in flesh space. But yes, he/she is getting their ass kicked by IC, is there any way to get them out aside from knocking them out?
« Last Edit: <05-31-20/2203:45> by Scythe Massakur »

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #23 on: <05-31-20/2220:37> »
I'm not sure I understand the question, as pulling someone out of the matrix is not required to do first aid/medkit.

Are you asking about a context like "OMG, he's getting his ass kicked by the IC, I'm pulling the plug on him"?  Because if so... yeah you can't do that with a Living Persona.  Aside from knocking him unconscious yourself.  But dumpshock might kill him...

I was put under the impression that technomancers that take damage in the Matrix take damage in flesh space.

That is correct.  They don't have a matrix condition monitor, so any matrix damage goes right to their own damage track.  And then they take it AGAIN, if it was biofeedback ;)

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But yes, he/she is getting their ass kicked by IC, is there any way to get them out aside from knocking them out?

Nope.
« Last Edit: <05-31-20/2231:43> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Scythe Massakur

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« Reply #24 on: <05-31-20/2233:59> »
I'm not sure I understand the question, as pulling someone out of the matrix is not required to do first aid/medkit.

Are you asking about a context like "OMG, he's getting his ass kicked by the IC, I'm pulling the plug on him"?  Because if so... yeah you can't do that with a Living Persona.  Aside from knocking him unconscious yourself.  But dumpshock might kill him...

I was put under the impression that technomancers that take damage in the Matrix take damage in flesh space.

That is correct.  They don't have a matrix condition monitor, so any matrix damage goes right to their own damage track.  And then they take it AGAIN, if it was biofeedback ;)

Quote
But yes, he/she is getting their ass kicked by IC, is there any way to get them out aside from knocking them out?

Nope.

Many thanks. That's all I needed for now.

markelphoenix

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« Reply #25 on: <06-01-20/0017:26> »
So, have a chummer on stand by with a few tranq patches to 'jack you out' is what I am hearing?

Xenon

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« Reply #26 on: <06-01-20/0437:13> »
I have to run the numbers for SR6, but at least in SR5 you were highly unlikely to become unconscious from biofeedback damage alone before the device you used to connect to the matrix was bricked and you got dumped from the matrix anyway.

If you jack into VR via a device then the device will try to take the Switch Interface Mode action to switch you to AR if you fall unconscious, but you will still remain connected to the matrix.

If your persona is currently link locked then you will remain in VR even if you fall unconscious.

So, have a chummer on stand by with a few tranq patches to 'jack you out' is what I am hearing?
A Technomancer that falls unconscious will still be connected to the matrix and since the TM doesn't have a device to switch her to AR mode if she falls unconscious she will also remain in VR (even if not link-locked).

If anything you would want to stand-by with stim-patches and trauma-patches. Or a coffin-sized Faraday's cage.

A tranq-patch? Not so much.
« Last Edit: <06-01-20/0440:17> by Xenon »