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Firing Squad released

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Hobbes

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« Reply #15 on: <05-31-20/0838:11> »
Edge shenanigans with the Wild die is RAW.  And, as far as I can tell, intended.  How your table feels about it may vary. 

That said, even if you're Edging the Wild Die frequently I wouldn't count on single digit dice pools being useful in combat.  You'll still rarely inflict meaningful damage on your actions.  Specialization, Expertise, Smartgun Link in your Contacts, plus 4 dice for 10 Karma and 2000 Nuyen or so.  They're cheap dice, pick them up along with a modest Agility and a couple ranks in Firearms.  10 Dice, plus a Wild Die.  1 in six times you'll miss clean, 1 in six times you'll hit pretty hard, 4 in six times you'll get in a minor flesh wound.

And don't screw around with the little guns.  Iron Eagle, Explosive Rounds, SA Fire Mode, 6P with a socially acceptable Heavy Pistol.  Make sure they know they've been kissed.  ; ) 

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #16 on: <05-31-20/0952:38> »
There is a Rule already regarding edge rerolling the wild die.  If it is rerolled, it is no longer a wild die.

So you can cancel your own wild die "1", but when rerolled if it comes up 5 or 6 its only 1 hit.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Hobbes

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« Reply #17 on: <05-31-20/1024:35> »
There is a rule for Exploding 6s and the Wild Die, the re-roll isn't Wild, but the original 6 still counts as 3 hits.  The 1 Edge Re-roll a die doesn't mention the Wild Die, nor does the +1 to a die for 2 Edge.  Near as I can tell the 1 Edge Re-roll and 2 Edge +1 still both counts as a Wild Die.

At least that I can find : )   "Wild Die" wasn't something I've gone scouring the rulebook over.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #18 on: <05-31-20/1039:13> »
There is a Rule already regarding edge rerolling the wild die.  If it is rerolled, it is no longer a wild die.

So you can cancel your own wild die "1", but when rerolled if it comes up 5 or 6 its only 1 hit.
That line is mentioned within the context of Exploding Dice. So 'I rolled a 6 on an Exploding Wild Die, on the reroll I roll another 6, on the second reroll I roll a 1, so I got 4 hits and do not suffer the 'wild-die-rolled-1' downside. There's no explicit rules anywhere on how Edge raise/reroll of a Wild Die work, as far as I can tell.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #19 on: <05-31-20/1243:17> »
Quote from: Wild Die, pg 49
If Edge is being used and 6s explode, a 6 on the
wild die counts as 3 hits and can then be rerolled.
Any additional hits, rolled 1s, or re-rolls are counted
as a regular die, not a wild die.

Bolded for emphasis.

I rolled a 1 on the wild die... I spend edge to reroll it, it's no longer a wild die.
NPC rolls a 6 on the wild die... you spend edge to force a reroll, if it comes up 1 it's just a 1 and not a wild die 1.

In contrast, the rule doesn't mention MODIFYING the rolled value.   If you roll a 4 on the wild die and spend 2 edge to turn that 4 into a 5 (or you spend 4 edge to turn a 3 into a 5, etc), it's still a wild die and you now have 3 hits.
« Last Edit: <05-31-20/1253:13> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #20 on: <05-31-20/1251:42> »
Except that that sentence is within the context of exploding 6s: '... and can then be rerolled; extra hits/1s/rerolls [of the rerolled die] are counted as regular dice'.

It's the same paragraph and explicitly deals with the context of rerolling an exploding Wild Die, not a separate paragraph explaining how Edge-interaction works, and still doesn't explain whether we can avoid the result of rolling 1 on the Wild Die by raising its value (which is impossible when you had exploding dice).
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Lormyr

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« Reply #21 on: <05-31-20/1302:45> »
I read that the same way as Mikey, and yes, it does pain me to say that. :p
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Hobbes

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« Reply #22 on: <05-31-20/1308:17> »
Could totally parse it that way.  My reading is that both lines are in the context of Exploding 6s.  And either reading the 2 Edge spend to change the result of the roll still counts a Wild Die.

You're (Edit SSDR) cool with spending 2 Edge to change a Wild Die result from a 1 to 2 or a 5 to 6?  And the One Edge Spend turns it from a Wild Die into a Normal Die?

Not terribly important I guess.  Wild Die comes up a "1", Player spends one Edge to re-roll, comes up a 1 or 6.  Stuff like that isn't going to happen frequently.  Even if you've got a player or two using Wild Dice frequently at a table you'll go several games before seeing that outcome.
« Last Edit: <05-31-20/1322:11> by Hobbes »

markelphoenix

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« Reply #23 on: <06-01-20/0012:35> »
Yeah, I read it same way as Michael.

Marcus

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« Reply #24 on: <06-01-20/0226:51> »
Beyond idiocy of some of the Grey "help boxes". My personal favorite was page 85 Entitled "Team Dynamics". Just wanted to say thanks guys, I'm glad you found the time to write three paragraphs and a sentence to clear up that old problem. Gosh its been that easy the whole time, who knew?

Sarcasm aside, I echo the well made point this book would have been interesting, if a rule had just been added to make the AR DR comparison do anything to modify the related attack roll or even just the related damage value.  It could have been as simple as adding another Martial Art Technique just like you know Precision strikes which addressed another long stand complaint with the system.  Sadly less that much of this book is a really a large number of options to drop cash on stuff that largely does nothing.

« Last Edit: <06-01-20/0231:58> by Marcus »
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Finstersang

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« Reply #25 on: <06-01-20/0558:10> »
Werenīt there even vague promises made that AR/DR will have a bigger RAW impact in Firing Line? What happened to that? Argle Bargle Foofaraw? Did the Editors accidentaly delete that part (while also deleting themselves from the Credits?). Executive J. Hardy Decision because you just canīt have nice things in Detroit?   

Because seriously, I just canīt believe this utter idiocy. Amidst all the complaints that AR/DR is not meaningfull enough, you release a combat supplement that mostly adds options that mostly affect these meaningless values, but without giving them anymore meaning?

Or is there something in the mix for the next Core book "Errata Patch" instead? (Unlikely, but itīs the only thing I would appreciate here...)
« Last Edit: <06-01-20/0624:24> by Finstersang »
"Firing Line adds a ton of Perks that modify Attack and Defense ratings"

"Cool, does this mean that the whole AR/DR comparison has a bigger impact now?"

"Haha No :D"

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #26 on: <06-01-20/0621:21> »
Phew, made it through the gun-section. Spotted a few small errors here and there. Wrote down my mental responses for fun:

- So a Pilum has a blunt version? Is that a foam replica version?
- Why is a Folding Kami strictly better than the equivalent-cost normal version?
- Survival walking cane = frickin' A!
- Ooooh, special hammer for bashing open doors (and skulls)
- Note to self: Combat Boots for all HTR, just because
- Wait a sec, if their weapon AR is Strx2, does that mean their actual AR is Strx3?! Sounds a bit excessive O_O
- Oh my, melee weapons to accompany your fancy clothing!
- 'Colt Secret Agent' Secret AGENT Man! Secret AGENT Man!
- Oh cute a revolver that holds spent casings and a spare set of ammo
- Praetorian looks awesome again
- Oh my, using a dart gun for medicine is brilliant
- Surprise, motherfragger! Triple-barrel-shotgun to the FACE!
- Spas-25 (24 says its stats) looks wicked and love how it's designed to help with breaching
- Full-auto-shotgun remains scary as fuck
- Oh my, AR 1 at <3m XD Bracing your gun on your ballistic shield sounds bad-ass btw
- HELLO Rhino Hunter! How about we hunt some pigs instead...
- Oh my, that War Hound! If you don't want underbarrel grenades, get this puppy instead of an Alpha!
- Okay that M-1400 sounds pretty cool
- Shouldn't the Ultimax 83 have 'melee hardened' in its statblocks?
- Mamma Mad! Oh my!
- A tri-barrel WHAT NOW?!
- 30kg HMG sounds pretty light, really. The only good Knight is a Black Knight. Or a Knight cut in half by one.
- Alphabetical order causes the Knights to be in the wrong order XD Same for Charybdis and Scylla
- Ties already always go to the attacker, so the Charybdis's buff there actually does nothing
- Scylla sounds like lovely greased lightning
- Gun gauntlets!
- MELEE COMBAT GRENADES OH MY GOD I KNOW AT LEAST THREE PCS THAT WOULD LOVE THIS SHIT!!!
- GLITTER GRENADES!!! =D
- FLASHPAK JEWELRY!!! =D
- What sick fuck came up with a triple-barrel grenade launcher... KRIME!
- Caltrops seem weak. Wait, Caltrops you resist, but Kaltrops say you apply the damage?
- Oooooh Noise grenades and Thermographic Flash-Paks!
- What is the Extreme Range supposed to be for Bows? Sounds weird.
- Eep the Pulse sounds scary Confused-wise
- Oh my those laser-guns have fantastic attack rating
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Finstersang

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« Reply #27 on: <06-01-20/0639:43> »
- Oh my those laser-guns have fantastic attack rating

Now imagine this having an actual meaning  ::)

But yes, the variety is really nice. The melee weapons are quite stylish, the more conventional weapons are interesting enough to be considered an option over the stuff in the core rules, and the more futuristic stuff isnīt just a pointless gimmick this time. 
« Last Edit: <06-01-20/0642:41> by Finstersang »
"Firing Line adds a ton of Perks that modify Attack and Defense ratings"

"Cool, does this mean that the whole AR/DR comparison has a bigger impact now?"

"Haha No :D"

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #28 on: <06-01-20/0652:21> »
- Oh my those laser-guns have fantastic attack rating

Now imagine this having an actual meaning  ::)
Sure. Let me just envision SR6 as it's written already... Done. Hey, Attack Rating has a meaning. Such a marvelous imaginary situation.

And hey, if you want to tweak it: https://shadowland.blog/2020/05/08/houserules-edge-ar-dr/
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Lormyr

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« Reply #29 on: <06-01-20/0838:50> »
Echo to Finstersang that a great opportunity to expand or later the AR/DR mechanic was missed, but at least the book was overall a step in the right direction of making the system more palatable. Several of the commonly voiced community criticisms were addressed, so maybe if we just get louder on the AR/DR stuff that might get some lime light too. :p

Edit: But in the meantime: SSDR, what about them other explosives home slice!? :)
"TL:DR 6e's reduction of meaningful choices is akin to forcing everyone to wear training wheels. Now it's just becomes a bunch of toddlers riding around on tricycles they can't fall off of." - Adzling