[Eloque]

A lone Ford Americar, with Matrix connection mind you, is standing on the street corner. My decker friend wants to hack that vehicle and open the doors.

How does he do it? Basically I can find the skills and such, but not things like firewall and all.

That Americar, it has no firewall rating. And is it always part of someones PAN, so I should use the commlink? What if the commlink got destroyed in a firefight and we want to steal that car?

I've got a few ideas, but can someone go through the steps for me?

[Banshee]

What edition?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

5th edition: the device rating of consumer grade goods (which sounds it it describes a Ford Americar, as opposed to being say cheap and disposable or purpose-built for police or military use...) is 2.  And you sub in device rating for missing stats, ergo it'll roll 2+2 dice to resist your decker's shenanigans. (unless slaved to a device or host with a better dice pool, of course...).  If all you need is to open the door (i.e. you don't plan on driving it) you only need 1 or 2 marks for the control device, depending on whether you call opening a car door a free or a simple action.  If you intend to DRIVE the car after you open the door, then yes the hacker needs 3 marks.

6th edition: devices that lack D/F have 0s.  However, in the specific case of vehicles/drones, you sub in Pilot in place of mental attributes, so it'll at least roll that when willpower or intuition is invoked. As with 5th edition, if the car is protected by a PAN or Host, you'll use the better dice. If all you want to do is make the car door open, you can Spoof Command with outsider access. If you want to drive the car around after you open the door, then you'll need User access.

[Redwulfe]

in 6th do cars in 2080's have Self driving Capabilities.

I thought that is what the pilot and Gridguide are for. So could you just spoof the car to go to X location? yes you are not in control of the car and it is connected to Gridguide but its still possible, correct?

[Banshee]

in 6th do cars in 2080's have Self driving Capabilities.

I thought that is what the pilot and Gridguide are for. So could you just spoof the car to go to X location? yes you are not in control of the car and it is connected to Gridguide but its still possible, correct?

Kind of ... spoof command only covers one action, control device would be needed for any kind of long term use

Edit: the question then is do you consider telling the autopilot to drive to address X a command that can be executed by a single action. Personally I say no, but I can see the argument for yes.

[Hobbes]

Go to X location kinda has to be a single command.  If Riggers need to use multiple Command actions to tell a drone/vehicle running on it's own Pilot for just going from A to B that really would be a big deal.

If a legitimate user was "driving" a vehicle, they'd put in the 123 Main street address and let the Grid Guide and Pilot program do the rest.  Not seeing why that would be any different for someone with Hacked Access. 

If the vehicle had been set to Manual operation, or Grid Guide wasn't available for a given area or some other wrinkle, then, yeah, multiple actions.

[Banshee]

Go to X location kinda has to be a single command.  If Riggers need to use multiple Command actions to tell a drone/vehicle running on it's own Pilot for just going from A to B that really would be a big deal.

If a legitimate user was "driving" a vehicle, they'd put in the 123 Main street address and let the Grid Guide and Pilot program do the rest.  Not seeing why that would be any different for someone with Hacked Access. 

If the vehicle had been set to Manual operation, or Grid Guide wasn't available for a given area or some other wrinkle, then, yeah, multiple actions.

Yes, but is it a single action too? Or is it sustained control... that is the significant difference

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I'd see telling an autopilot to go to a location being a "one and done" command, and issuance via Spoof Command.  In my view you only need Control Device if you're gonna remotely drive the car yourself with your own piloting skill.

[Banshee]

I'd see telling an autopilot to go to a location being a "one and done" command, and issuance via Spoof Command.  In my view you only need Control Device if you're gonna remotely drive the car yourself with your own piloting skill.

Yep .. I can see the argument for that being very valid and depending on the situation might rule that way just for simplicity sake, but I wrote spoof command to specifically only cover one command for a single action so I would rule that even then control device is required for maintaining control or the autopilot will stop when its normal commands reset

[Xenon]

...I wrote spoof command to specifically only cover one command for a single action

So... "I am instructing the drone to fire one narrow burst at the Troll" ....would be a valid use of Spoof while... "I am instructing the drone to keep shooting narrow bursts at the Troll until it drops dead" ...would not?

[Banshee]

...I wrote spoof command to specifically only cover one command for a single action

So... "I am instructing the drone to fire one narrow burst at the Troll" ....would be a valid use of Spoof while... "I am instructing the drone to keep shooting narrow bursts at the Troll until it drops dead" ...would not?

Correct

[Hobbes]

...I wrote spoof command to specifically only cover one command for a single action

So... "I am instructing the drone to fire one narrow burst at the Troll" ....would be a valid use of Spoof while... "I am instructing the drone to keep shooting narrow bursts at the Troll until it drops dead" ...would not?

Correct

That would imply it would take a command each turn from the Rigger to keep attacking a target.  Which is different from how I've always played, could certainly be a table thing.

Using Spoof Device to issue a command to a vehicle or drone should be the same as the legitimate user issuing a single command.  As "Command" is pretty loosely defined there is likely to be some variation from group to group.

[Banshee]

...I wrote spoof command to specifically only cover one command for a single action

So... "I am instructing the drone to fire one narrow burst at the Troll" ....would be a valid use of Spoof while... "I am instructing the drone to keep shooting narrow bursts at the Troll until it drops dead" ...would not?

Correct

That would imply it would take a command each turn from the Rigger to keep attacking a target.  Which is different from how I've always played, could certainly be a table thing.

Using Spoof Device to issue a command to a vehicle or drone should be the same as the legitimate user issuing a single command.  As "Command" is pretty loosely defined there is likely to be some variation from group to group.

Yeah, and it won't be game breaking and not a major issue most of the time which is why I consented to the down sizing of the action description. Originally I had another couple of paragraphs that included more detail ... specifically that it covered a single command that could be completed in a single action. That got condensed and now says a command that it executes on its next action (or something like that since I'm not currently looking at it) .. which leaves logically open to what you guys are saying.

[Leith]

Aside from the game mechanics, what is the difference between spoof command and an illicit use of control device?

[Banshee]

Aside from the game mechanics, what is the difference between spoof command and an illicit use of control device?

Spoof is a single command, control is sustained long term control

EDIT: more specifically spoof is tricking a device into following a command while control is actually using the device directly