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Theorycraft my armor house rule

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MercilessMing

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« on: <02-18-20/1957:24> »
So, house rules on armor in 6e are dime a dozen, but I came up with a new one this weekend that I unfortunately didnít get to test because it was a combat-less session. Poke holes in this and theorycraft what might be good and bad about this please? :

When doing the AR vs DR comparison, for every +-3 points of difference, whoever is lower has to reroll a success, either on the soak roll or the attack roll. Up to some cap, say 4 cause SR6 likes to max things at 4 and some DR can get nuts.
No Edge involved, but uses a common function of edge.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: <02-18-20/2018:22> »
So, house rules on armor in 6e are dime a dozen, but I came up with a new one this weekend that I unfortunately didnít get to test because it was a combat-less session. Poke holes in this and theorycraft what might be good and bad about this please? :

When doing the AR vs DR comparison, for every +-3 points of difference, whoever is lower has to reroll a success, either on the soak roll or the attack roll. Up to some cap, say 4 cause SR6 likes to max things at 4 and some DR can get nuts.
No Edge involved, but uses a common function of edge.

I think it's got potential.  I'm curious why you chose +/-3 as opposed to +/-4, but that's not ultimately a huge deal.  The bigger change is switching the AR/DR comparison from being Edge to something "like" Edge.  Forcing the opponent to reroll a hit is the strongest way to spend a reroll, so I like that's what you use.  As a 2nd order effect, it potentially helps with edge gain not hit the per-round limit by removing one leg from the triad.

Of course another 2nd order effect is that defensive tech makes it harder to hit the target.  It's interesting to think nuyen for nuyen, or karma for karma, is it more effective to invest in DR and nerf the attack roll so it can remain comparable to the non-house-rule version after being nerfed, or invest in the attack roll, or invest in AR so the attack roll isn't nerfed.  That'd take more time to contemplate than I have available to give to it.

I kind of suspect the ROI is highest in investing in DR, so you might need to consider lowering the DR bonus of gear (or going at a higher interval for rerolls than 3).  I bet if it were +/4 or even 5, it'd be more balanced.  But it's a solid idea.
« Last Edit: <02-18-20/2020:42> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #2 on: <02-19-20/0055:36> »
I dislike it because you're removing a way for people to earn Edge and use it later on. Takes the bite out of the system. It also means you'll get people going for massive DR so they never get hit. It really hurts melee players since those have far less options to raise their AR.

Adding some extra benefit if the difference is big, but not in the form of Edge (limits) or a forced reroll (extremely powerful) is definitely an option but then I'd make it bonus dice, capped at your skill rank so an amateur is restricted in their benefits. Keeping the 3 instead of 4 then is fine since it just means you're adding benefits faster.
« Last Edit: <02-19-20/0110:11> by Michael Chandra »
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MercilessMing

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« Reply #3 on: <02-19-20/1255:14> »
Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.

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I dislike it because you're removing a way for people to earn Edge and use it later on.
That's fair, and something I definitely have to watch for.  I've always disliked the Edge award, I just don't believe it belongs here, but if that changes the edge economy, I have to respond to that.  I think this will only affect character that went all in on AR or all in on DR and were getting edge from this source all the time.    Now, if there was a suppressive fire action, THAT would make sense to generate edge...
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Of course another 2nd order effect is that defensive tech makes it harder to hit the target.
Right.  Well, RAW, if a defender was going to use their 1 Edge point during this action, the attack test would be the most effective place.  And I think this is where it needs to happen, so that firing mode decisions carry risk.  Narratively, armor isn't making the attack miss, it's saying the bullet hit a protected part of you.  This is ok in my view, because Shadowrun can't have neat and tidy distinctions between hitting and damaging, since to-hit tests are also to-damage tests.  However, if it turns out this does give too much power to defense, I can change the defensive advantage case to letting the defender reroll failures on the soak test.
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I'm curious why you chose +/-3 as opposed to +/-4, but that's not ultimately a huge deal.  . . . I bet if it were +/4 or even 5, it'd be more balanced.

I chose 3 to start, because I want this comparison to be more granular.  I want there to be less times where the decision to take cover or use burst fire doesn't change anything.  But I'm wary of making it too easy.
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I kind of suspect the ROI is highest in investing in DR, so you might need to consider lowering the DR bonus of gear
Absolutely.  The more that DR matters, the more obvious it becomes how out of line cyberlimb armor is, for example.  It's crazy to think about how the difference between a synthleather jacket and full security armor is the same as the amount of armor you can put on a limb.   





MercilessMing

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« Reply #4 on: <03-24-20/1731:29> »
Just wanted to follow up for anyone interested.  This did put a dent in the edge economy, and as a consequence made combat less interesting.  So, even though the Edge award doesn't make sense, it is useful, and I'm going back to it.