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[SR5] Wound Modifiers While Rigging?

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« on: <02-13-20/2119:43> »
I haven't been able to find anything that says wound modifiers affect Matrix actions, and I don't know if it was thought of as self-evident, or if it was just omitted.

So, do wound modifiers affect you when you're in VR? The way it's described, I figured no, unless you're jumped in with a control rig. (So, rigging: yes, deckers: no)

I rationalize it that way because riggers, unlike deckers or technomancers, have to feel what's going on, so the "pilot applies wound modifiers to vehicle tests" rule also applies to jumped-in gunnery.

This'd mean, if you get shot at by standard bullets & gel rounds, then run away to jump into your drone, you'd apply the wound modifiers to any tests you make; however, if you just use standard VR remote control, you would get neither the wound penalties, nor your control rig's benefits.

Is this RAI, or is it easier on riggers to just say your injuries in meatspace don't matter; it's just the drone's physical damage potentially reducing its Handling?
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« Reply #1 on: <02-14-20/2224:43> »
As it turns out, I looked around on the sub-Reddit and found someone saying that wound modifiers not only also penalize you in the Matrix, but also when you're doing astral projection.
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Xenon

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« Reply #2 on: <02-18-20/1202:51> »
...wound modifiers not only also penalize you in the Matrix, but also when you're doing astral projection.
This.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #3 on: <02-18-20/1212:16> »
Quote from: Wound Modifiers, pg. 170 SR5
Wound modifiers are applied to all tests not about reducing
the number of boxes you’re about to take on
your Condition Monitor (such as damage resistance, resisting
direct combat spells, toxin resistance, and so on).


They apply to absolutely everything that's not a soak test of some kind.  (yes, it even applies to dodge tests because those aren't DIRECTLY about reducing damage...)
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

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« Reply #4 on: <02-18-20/1246:38> »
I know there's a rule that explicitly states getting wounded enough makes your initiative go down. I just didn't see anything explicitly confirming "concussions also make decking/rigging more difficult". Thanks for the confirmation!
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #5 on: <02-18-20/1425:52> »
I know there's a rule that explicitly states getting wounded enough makes your initiative go down. I just didn't see anything explicitly confirming "concussions also make decking/rigging more difficult". Thanks for the confirmation!

I suppose that there's an argument to be made that because you can't perceive your body whilst in VR, it should be like a pain editor in that you ignore wound modifiers.

Nothing to support that assumption in a rules lawyerly sense, but it's IMO a logical enough presumption for a house rule to that effect.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Banshee

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« Reply #6 on: <02-18-20/1439:45> »
Forgive me if I'm wrong since I didn't take the time to look it up ... but doesn't the rulebook specifically say that the wound penalties apply to all tests except soak rolls? That doesn't exclude matrix or astral.
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #7 on: <02-18-20/1451:48> »
Forgive me if I'm wrong since I didn't take the time to look it up ... but doesn't the rulebook specifically say that the wound penalties apply to all tests except soak rolls? That doesn't exclude matrix or astral.

It does.  I quoted it upthread :D  But if a Pain Editor opens up the possibility that wound modifiers are "only pain" rather than involving actually diminished capability, a hypothetical house rule saying that while you're in VR it works like a Pain Editor is theoretically plausible.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Banshee

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« Reply #8 on: <02-18-20/1541:02> »
Forgive me if I'm wrong since I didn't take the time to look it up ... but doesn't the rulebook specifically say that the wound penalties apply to all tests except soak rolls? That doesn't exclude matrix or astral.

It does.  I quoted it upthread :D  But if a Pain Editor opens up the possibility that wound modifiers are "only pain" rather than involving actually diminished capability, a hypothetical house rule saying that while you're in VR it works like a Pain Editor is theoretically plausible.

Ok ... yeah but then getting into house rule territory where you want to change things not because the rules don't cover it.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #9 on: <02-18-20/1605:43> »
Forgive me if I'm wrong since I didn't take the time to look it up ... but doesn't the rulebook specifically say that the wound penalties apply to all tests except soak rolls? That doesn't exclude matrix or astral.

It does.  I quoted it upthread :D  But if a Pain Editor opens up the possibility that wound modifiers are "only pain" rather than involving actually diminished capability, a hypothetical house rule saying that while you're in VR it works like a Pain Editor is theoretically plausible.

Ok ... yeah but then getting into house rule territory where you want to change things not because the rules don't cover it.

Well it's not what *I* want... I was spitballing as to why the OP might have been told that Wound Penalties don't apply while in VR.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Banshee

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« Reply #10 on: <02-18-20/1619:30> »
Forgive me if I'm wrong since I didn't take the time to look it up ... but doesn't the rulebook specifically say that the wound penalties apply to all tests except soak rolls? That doesn't exclude matrix or astral.

It does.  I quoted it upthread :D  But if a Pain Editor opens up the possibility that wound modifiers are "only pain" rather than involving actually diminished capability, a hypothetical house rule saying that while you're in VR it works like a Pain Editor is theoretically plausible.

Ok ... yeah but then getting into house rule territory where you want to change things not because the rules don't cover it.

Well it's not what *I* want... I was spitballing as to why the OP might have been told that Wound Penalties don't apply while in VR.

I know ... "you" was not meant to be targeted at anyone in particular.  Just stating the rules as written are pretty clear on that one
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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« Reply #11 on: <02-18-20/1932:17> »
A GM of mine added a house rule that wound penalties don't apply in VR because of an unlucky/unaware rigger in the group.

When I GM, I'm thinking of adding a house rule that a Control Rig gives you its' rating in auto-hits on defense tests, but keeping wound penalties always applying. That way, dumpshock still applies when you jump into your backup drone, but you can get more mileage out of your first one in the face of burst fire Stick&Shock.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #12 on: <02-18-20/1950:28> »
Forgive me if I'm wrong since I didn't take the time to look it up ... but doesn't the rulebook specifically say that the wound penalties apply to all tests except soak rolls? That doesn't exclude matrix or astral.

It does.  I quoted it upthread :D  But if a Pain Editor opens up the possibility that wound modifiers are "only pain" rather than involving actually diminished capability, a hypothetical house rule saying that while you're in VR it works like a Pain Editor is theoretically plausible.

Ok ... yeah but then getting into house rule territory where you want to change things not because the rules don't cover it.

Well it's not what *I* want... I was spitballing as to why the OP might have been told that Wound Penalties don't apply while in VR.

I know ... "you" was not meant to be targeted at anyone in particular.  Just stating the rules as written are pretty clear on that one

I hate that we got rid of specifically singular 2nd person pronouns.  "Thou" and "Thine" versus "You" and "Yours" make it much more clear when the speaker is referring to one person or a group of people :D   I guess we all just have to embrace "you" and "y'all" :D
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.