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Full Auto in 6e is very vague

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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #15 on: <01-17-20/1326:06> »
But TBH, we can hair-split the fragg out of the current state of FA attacks, but that doesn´t solve their main problem: They are just almost 100% mechanically inferior to the other firing modes. (Unless you use Anticipiation, at which point they become extremely silly if the GM doesn´t have common sense and puts a limit on the number of possible attacks).
Isn't FA the only way to hit more than 2 targets with a single action and not use any minor actions?  That would seem to me to make it at least circumstantially useful.  Or am I missing something?  If there are only two targets Wide Burst is obviously FAR better.
Dual-wielding two wide bursts.

As for Anticipation, it might get errata clarification, we'll see soon, but the key note is to notice the description mentions "each target".
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #16 on: <01-17-20/1331:08> »
But TBH, we can hair-split the fragg out of the current state of FA attacks, but that doesn´t solve their main problem: They are just almost 100% mechanically inferior to the other firing modes. (Unless you use Anticipiation, at which point they become extremely silly if the GM doesn´t have common sense and puts a limit on the number of possible attacks).
Isn't FA the only way to hit more than 2 targets with a single action and not use any minor actions?  That would seem to me to make it at least circumstantially useful.  Or am I missing something?  If there are only two targets Wide Burst is obviously FAR better.
Dual-wielding two wide bursts.

As for Anticipation, it might get errata clarification, we'll see soon, but the key note is to notice the description mentions "each target".

The ability to shoot someone twice in the same attack is, IMO, the main point of FA. Doubling, or tripling up on DV is a pretty big benefit. Although action economy is nothing to sneeze at either.  Saving a minor action means that's one more attack this round you get to dodge.

Anticipation says it works when you expend the multiple attack minor action. Ergo if you don't expend the action, then you don't get to Anticipate.  And if you expend the action, then you don't get to double/triple up on a single target as that's a FA rule, not a multiple attacks rule.
« Last Edit: <01-17-20/1333:49> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Finstersang

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« Reply #17 on: <01-17-20/1346:16> »
But TBH, we can hair-split the fragg out of the current state of FA attacks, but that doesn´t solve their main problem: They are just almost 100% mechanically inferior to the other firing modes. (Unless you use Anticipiation, at which point they become extremely silly if the GM doesn´t have common sense and puts a limit on the number of possible attacks).
Isn't FA the only way to hit more than 2 targets with a single action and not use any minor actions?  That would seem to me to make it at least circumstantially useful.  Or am I missing something?  If there are only two targets Wide Burst is obviously FAR better.

The advantages of Full Auto are twofold:

1) you don't have to spend the minor action

2) you get to potentially place multiple attacks on the same target.  Yeah, FA doesn't increase the DV... but you CAN hit the same target with normal DV 2, 3, or even more times!

1) Weirdly enough, the German CRB expanded this to Burst Fire as well, which further devaluates FA in comparison  :o

2) True, but that option is a statistical trap when compared to BF. Yes, there is a small chance to hit with all 2 or 3 attacks against that one single target, but each time, the damage is resisted seperately as well. And with the same amount of incredible dice luck, you might as well just score that one devastating BF hit, with all the Net hits and the +2 Damage added upon.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #18 on: <01-17-20/1354:07> »
Well, with regards to #1, it looks like in this edition you don't have to spend the minor action either. But, you're limited to only 2 targets rather than multiple attacks not having a limit.  Now, as an aside, how do you handle the combination of wide bursts with the multiple attack action? Yeah THAT'S sticky in a way that I don't think the FA rules are ;)


And IRT #2, it all depends on the soak pool(s) of the target(s) in question, doesn't it? Body 2 is the "average" value for NPCs, and most NPCs won't have bone lacing or such for more dice, either.  Assuming I hit each time, I'd rather inflict a DV multiple times vs 2 dice each time rather than DV +2 once.
« Last Edit: <01-17-20/1409:27> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

penllawen

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« Reply #19 on: <01-25-20/0825:42> »
Body 2 is the "average" value for NPCs
It might be the “average” value for all the NPCs in the world, but unless your PCs spend a lot of time shooting civilians, it’s very unlikely to be the average value they see rolled against them. In the 6e CRB, only a few grunts have Body of 1 or 2, and they are all either Professional Rating 0/1 or non-physical-combat types (riggers, deckers, technomancers.)

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #20 on: <01-25-20/0834:27> »
How many NPCs have 2s in a stat depends more on how the GM/Module stats the NPCs than where a theoretical "average" lies, yes.

But even if the Body is 3 or 4, it's not changing the calculus much of whether it's better to do one hit soaked once or multiple hits of a bigger combined DV but are soaked individually.  Probably geting 0-2 hits either way... it's just skewing more.  A body of 6 or 9 changes the calculus towards one "small" hit soaked once. THAT isn't going to be common, if the GM is responsibly statting the opposition.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.