[Kane]

First I guessed where to post either general or rules question.

Ive been a shadowrun fan since the first ed however Ive never gotten a group together to play more that the food fight session. Either school life or love interupted.

The early problems that Im having are
1. How to build mages any tradition. assuming standard point buy
2. How to build technomancers or deckers.  assuming standard point buy
   In both cases Ive reversed engineered the archtypes. However Im struggling creating from scratch.

3. How these arch types  play out in a game...Ive even had players use the archtypes provided. I think that Im missing something because all the parties actions and spells and other things that they did during the adventure were too easy. I do realize that its an introduction adventure but it still seemed way too easy for any of their actions.

I wish there was a round by round commentary involving a decker/TM a mage or shaman , an adept and a street sam. as these runners go through the food fight adventure

Thanks for any advice or suggestions.

Additional I just grabbed the PDF of runners tool kit. However I would love insight from the community as well

[James McMurray]

Building mages is the same as building any other character, except that you pick up the Magician quality and you've got some other stuff you can spend your points on (Magic attribute, Magical skills, and spells). Magic 5 is probably as high as you need, and it saves you 25 BP on a BP-starved build.

I've never made a Technomancer, but I assume they're a lot like building mages, except you're buying resonance and the powers you need for technomancy.

How a mage plays out in the game depends completely on his build. You can buy a bunch of combat-focused spells and some sustaining foci and wade into a fight like a street samurai slinging magic instead of bullets. Or you can focus heavily on conjuring and binding to have spirits that do your fighting for you while you hide behind a sustained Improved Invisibility spell.

Pre-printed adventures, especially introductory ones, aren't built for heavily min-maxed PCs, so if the mage's player knows his stuff then he can easily seem over-powered, especially when the GM is also just learning the magic system.

What exactly was it that seemed too easy?

[Critias]

I wish there was a round by round commentary involving a decker/TM a mage or shaman , an adept and a street sam. as these runners go through the food fight adventure

I'm on my way out the door right now so I don't have time to tackle the rest of your post (will try later), but just as a heads up for this specific wish, check out the Runner's Toolkit when it hits (preorders are available now).  One booklet in it, very specifically, is a short fiction write-up for a Shadowrunner team going through a run, accompanied by a roll-by-roll, blow-by-blow, write-up of what dice they rolled to make everything happen.

It's not Food Fight in particular, but it's a round-by-round look at how a whole Shadowrun happened...so it sounds like it might be right up your alley.   

[FastJack]

I wish there was a round by round commentary involving a decker/TM a mage or shaman , an adept and a street sam. as these runners go through the food fight adventure

I'm on my way out the door right now so I don't have time to tackle the rest of your post (will try later), but just as a heads up for this specific wish, check out the Runner's Toolkit when it hits (preorders are available now).  One booklet in it, very specifically, is a short fiction write-up for a Shadowrunner team going through a run, accompanied by a roll-by-roll, blow-by-blow, write-up of what dice they rolled to make everything happen.

It's not Food Fight in particular, but it's a round-by-round look at how a whole Shadowrun happened...so it sounds like it might be right up your alley.   

I haven't gone through it with a fine-toothed comb (still at work), but from the bit I skimmed that's pretty much what it is.

[Kane]

Yes I posted this message right before Catalyst Launched Runner's tool Kit.  I wish this would have been the second item published right after the Core book.

Thanks people for your input.

[Little D]

Would it be possible to ask another, unrelated question in this thread, or should I just start up a new thread?

(The above question wasn't the question in question.  Wait...  That came out confusing.)

[James McMurray]

No need to ask, just ask.

Umm... You get the point.

[Little D]

Ok!

I was used to the 3rd edition of shadowrun.  And I am reading through the 4th edition book.

But something hasn't gotten through my skull just yet ; it is written in the rulebook that, at character creation, you can only put half of your build points in your attributes.  So, if you're building a 400-point runner, you could only spend 200 BPs in attributes.  Yet the sample characters often have more then that, the gunslinger adept having 250 BPs in her attributes.

How come they get to have more BPs in their attributes then what is allowed by the rules?

[FastJack]

You are limited to half your build points for Physical and Mental attributes. Edge, Magic and Resonance do not count towards this total. So the Magic 5 and Edge 4 costs 70 BP, meaning she only spent 180 on her other attributes, well within the max.

[Little D]

*bows before sensei FastJack*

Thanks.  Suddenly, not only does it all make sense...  But I feel like a complete buffoon for not having saw it earlier.

[Stahlseele]

Furthermore don't forget about one important thing:
The Sample Characters are useless and not without error.

[bigity]

Furthermore don't forget about one important thing:
The Sample Characters are useless and not without error.

A long-standing, multi-edition tradition

[Little D]

Oh, ok.

Hey, I have another question.

When you reach the maximum possible for a specific ability (either 6 or 7, depending on if you have the quality that allows you to get to 7), can you still specialize in that ability, taking it up to 9?

Or is that basically cheating?

[Stahlseele]

Hng, a Specializiation, to my understanding of the SR4 rules, does NOT actually change the skill but adds bonus dice to use with the specialized item, and thus would be allowed . .
Only Adept Enhanced Ability and Reflex Recorders actually change the skill . .

[Glyph]

Correct.  Specializations are a dice pool bonus, not a skill increase.  Only a few things actually increase skills - adept improved ability, reflex recorders, and move-by-wire (the latter increases your dodge skill). 

Because SR4 uses skill + Attribute, increasing your Attribute also increases your dice pool - things like muscle toner and cerebral boosters are much more important in SR4. 

And finally, there are lots and lots of adept powers, gear, and augmentations that simply give a bonus to different dice pools.  A rating: 6 medkit gives you 6 bonus dice for first aid.  Synthcardium: 3 gives you a +3 bonus to athletics tests.  Kinesics: 3 gives you a +3 bonus to social skill tests.  And so on.

Dice pools are variable in SR4.  For some things, having a dice pool of 12 means you are very, very good.  For other things, having a dice pool of 12 is still very, very good, but someone who is mediocre can have a similar dice pool simply by having a few relatively common dice pool modifiers - and someone who is very, very good and who also uses those helpful items will be superhuman.