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6E - Heal and "Injury"

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skalchemist

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« on: (18:27:11/11-09-19) »
The heal spell (pg 136) says:
Quote
Injuries can only be affected once by any Heal spell
What does that mean?  Does that mean you have to track which boxes come from which attacks somehow?  Does it mean the rows of the condition monitor?  Does it mean each person can only be healed once?  I can't find a definition of "injury" in the rules that makes sense with this restriction.

Any clarification would be helpful.

Ajax

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« Reply #1 on: (18:39:08/11-09-19) »
Simplest thing is to limit a character to being subject to one Heal spell per combat encounter.
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skalchemist

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« Reply #2 on: (18:49:19/11-09-19) »
Simplest thing is to limit a character to being subject to one Heal spell per combat encounter.
That seems reasonable, Ajax, but to be clear, are you saying that is the rule?  Or are you saying the rules are unclear and that is how you would handle it?

Xenon

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« Reply #3 on: (19:09:31/11-09-19) »
The heal spell (pg 136) says:
Quote
Injuries can only be affected once by any Heal spell
What does that mean?
It just means that you are only allowed to heal a subject a second time if he take more damage after the first time you healed him...


Ajax

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« Reply #4 on: (19:30:32/11-09-19) »
Simplest thing is to limit a character to being subject to one Heal spell per combat encounter.
That seems reasonable, Ajax, but to be clear, are you saying that is the rule?  Or are you saying the rules are unclear and that is how you would handle it?

The rules as written mean you are only allowed to heal a subject a second time if they take more damage after the first time you healed them and you can only heal the newer damage not any damage that was "left over" from the first healing spell.

So, let's say that Samurai Sally gets shot and checks off five Physical Condition Monitor boxes. Then Harry Hermetic casts Heal on her and gets three net hits. Samurai Sally now has two Physical Condition Monitor boxes checked off... and she gets shot again!

Sally is having a bad day, but this time isn't hit as hard, so she only looses two Physical Condition Monitor boxes. Sally checks off two Physical Condition Monitor boxes, for a total of four. Harry Hermetic casts Heal on her, gets crazy lucky with his dice, and gets four net hits! But Sally is only healed for two boxes... Because injuries can only be affected once by any Heal spell.

That's a pain in the astral to keep track of.

So I say just limit everybody to one Heal spell per scene and call it a day. Generally speaking, most Shadowrun combat scenes don't last terribly long anyway, so its pretty rare anyone really needs to be healed magically more than once. If they do get really seriously injured, you can just handwave it and say the magician takes X number of hours to do their voodoo during off-screen time. 
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skalchemist

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« Reply #5 on: (20:19:14/11-09-19) »
Thanks.  So "Injury" in this case essentially means "Each time the person was damaged".

I see where your house rule is coming from Ajax.  We'll have to play around with this as we start our own campaign.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #6 on: (07:10:41/11-10-19) »
To be exact, the rules state "single set of injuries" in places. Combined with the time limit, basically it's 'the injuries you just took together in that encounter can be treated'. If you use Heal during the fight, then that covers that set of injuries and you could use Heal again later. But if you treat afterwards, you only get 1 First Aid, 1 Medkit and 1 Heal to cover the entire set of injuries you took during that fight. Any second Heal would only cover the fresh damage, not the old one that you didn't manage to Heal before.

Of course Healing during a fight is rare, so it won't be much of a pain to track normally. Worst case, since this only applies to Heal (never saw First Aid being done during a fight), you could mark fresh injuries with a /, injuries not covered by a heal with a \ as well, and once both First Aid and a Medkit fail you as well, add a - , for / X * as different injury markers.
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Ajax

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« Reply #7 on: (09:01:34/11-10-19) »
If you’re injured to the extent that First Aid, Medkits, and Heal have all been used and you’re still not healthy, it’s time to evac. End the run and go visit your Street Doc.

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skalchemist

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« Reply #8 on: (13:18:05/11-10-19) »
To be exact, the rules state "single set of injuries" in places. Combined with the time limit, basically it's 'the injuries you just took together in that encounter can be treated'. If you use Heal during the fight, then that covers that set of injuries and you could use Heal again later. But if you treat afterwards, you only get 1 First Aid, 1 Medkit and 1 Heal to cover the entire set of injuries you took during that fight. Any second Heal would only cover the fresh damage, not the old one that you didn't manage to Heal before.
Huh, that is really not clear in the rules that it works that way.  Injury feels more like "damage from a particular attack" not "all damage taken during a fight".  Michael, would you say the intent of the designers was one "heal" per fight, or one "heal" per instance of damage taken?  I think you are saying the first.

Noble Drake

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« Reply #9 on: (14:02:10/11-10-19) »
"Injury" does feel more like "damage from a particular attack," but that's not what the rules say. The rules say "set of injuries," which a singular source of damage is very clearly not - you do not have a set of 1 stab wound, but you might have a set of injuries that comprise a stab wound, a bullet wound, and some bruises from getting smacked with a hammer.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #10 on: (14:37:42/11-10-19) »
I'm assuming once per fight, basically, unless you start healing during the fight. So basically for Heal, everything during the current fight since start / previous Heal.
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RuleLawyer

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« Reply #11 on: (18:56:02/11-10-19) »
I assume this is like 3e, 4e, 4a, and 5e: Boxes of damage left over after magical healing are treated just like damage spellcasters and conjurers accumulate from drain. We’ve already had to track some boxes separately. Has this changed in 6e?

Xenon

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« Reply #12 on: (19:13:55/11-10-19) »
Has this changed in 6e?
Nope.

Still the same.

You are only allowed to heal a subject a second time if he take more damage since after the first time you healed him.

Giabralter

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« Reply #13 on: (00:37:27/11-11-19) »
The heal spell (pg 136) says:
Quote
Injuries can only be affected once by any Heal spell
What does that mean?
It just means that you are only allowed to heal a subject a second time if he take more damage after the first time you healed him...

That's how we've played it since 3rd edition. Had to break a character's nose once because of it. 😁

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #14 on: (01:01:25/11-11-19) »
Note that 'has this changed since 5e' isn't newbie-friendly, we should first focus on the text within the 6w rules. The previous-edition know-how can help steer our interpretation, but we should try to keep things as newbie-friendly as possible.

Punching a guy to heal damage that you didn't manage to heal before, is exactly what we're arguing you CAN'T do, Gia. :P
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