NEWS

How do you run shedim?

  • 8 Replies
  • 147 Views

mcv

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 146
« on: (04:50:41/11-09-19) »
I'm about to run Humanitarian Aid (5th edition) from Sprawl Wilds, but I get the feeling I should be doing a bit more with the Shedim than just what the adventure offers.

For example, their stats seem to be the astral stats of shedim, but shedim inhabit a body and should be using the stats of that body, right? Being scary spirits, they should probably do more than just fight. And as the adventure is written, it seems like after they've killed the shedim, the players will still have no idea what they fought.

At the same time, after their physical body got destroyed, shedim just escape into astral space and get to inabit a new corpse, right? So the defeat of the shedim on the island should really be followed by an immediate infestation of shedim among the recently deceased in the hospital, most likely.

So how should this play out? What are the obvious tactics to use for shedim here? And are they shambling zombies or indistiguishable from normal people?

I'm running this now also because it's just been Halloween, so I'd like to emphasize the zombie/scary death spirit part a bit. Also, I'm open to running Romero and Juliette same time next year (I know many people hate it, but the concept sounds interesting to me, and I want to follow it up with (news of) GW closing the Watergate rift).

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 8960
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #1 on: (05:24:50/11-09-19) »
In SR4 and SR5, I strongly recommend using the Romero&Juliette rules for Auslander: F/2 edge (left), will not overcast or use Edge unless feeling like he'll die otherwise. Having Auslander overcast a F16 Toxic Wave with 24 exploding dice equals party-wipe.

Shedim are indistinguishable from normal people, and as Possession notes they add half their Force to the physical attributes of the corpse, and Spirit initiative dice. Note that the body and the Shedim share their Condition Monitor. So if the Shedim takes so much damage that the corpse is destroyed, given how the corpse has a higher CM (thanks to +F/2 Body), the Shedim's also is full. And as we know from Core, a Spirit that has a full CM is disrupted and banished back to the astral. So when you disrupt a Shedim, either by Banishing or by damage, it gets thrown back to the Shedim metaplane.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

mcv

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 146
« Reply #2 on: (07:23:13/11-09-19) »
In SR4 and SR5, I strongly recommend using the Romero&Juliette rules for Auslander: F/2 edge (left), will not overcast or use Edge unless feeling like he'll die otherwise. Having Auslander overcast a F16 Toxic Wave with 24 exploding dice equals party-wipe.
Good idea. I just read somewhere that that could be an issue.

Quote
Shedim are indistinguishable from normal people,
So what about them being zombie-like, as Romero and Juliette wants to suggest? Are they not walking corpses?

Quote
and as Possession notes they add half their Force to the physical attributes of the corpse, and Spirit initiative dice. Note that the body and the Shedim share their Condition Monitor. So if the Shedim takes so much damage that the corpse is destroyed, given how the corpse has a higher CM (thanks to +F/2 Body), the Shedim's also is full. And as we know from Core, a Spirit that has a full CM is disrupted and banished back to the astral. So when you disrupt a Shedim, either by Banishing or by damage, it gets thrown back to the Shedim metaplane.
To astral or to the metaplane? Because aren't those different things? I thought they hung around in astral space until either destroyed by their Evanescence, or they found a new body. But maybe I have that wrong.

And according to Romero and Juliette, Auslander is supposed to survive, isn't he? He shouldn't be completely destroyed.

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 8960
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #3 on: (07:44:32/11-09-19) »
Disrupting kicks you to the metaplane. That's why they're so scared now that the Rift has closed.

As for behaviour, let me see:
Quote
Whereas previous shedim
appeared to be intellectually primitive entities filled
with hate and violence, the master shedim exhibited a
deep and malicious intelligence.
So it seems normal Shedim are indeed not super-intelligent behaviour-wise.

Normal Shedim have Regeneration as Optional Power, Master Shedim always have it. So Romero & Juliette is correct about walking corpses: Non-Regeneration Shedim will still be zombie-like without looking normal, my bad.
Quote
Regeneration: [...] If the spirit possesses or
inhabits a formerly living vessel, the vessel slowly regenerates
back to its living form
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

mcv

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 146
« Reply #4 on: (10:32:06/11-09-19) »
Disrupting kicks you to the metaplane. That's why they're so scared now that the Rift has closed.
I'm playing this before the closing of the Watergate rift. How hard is it for specific shedim to get back through the rift? If they really go back to their metaplane after defeat, how can Auslander still be there for Romero & Juliette?

And is it possible to really kill a spirit so it won't return to its metaplane?

Quote
As for behaviour, let me see:
Quote
Whereas previous shedim
appeared to be intellectually primitive entities filled
with hate and violence, the master shedim exhibited a
deep and malicious intelligence.
So it seems normal Shedim are indeed not super-intelligent behaviour-wise.
Not super-intelligent, but normal intelligent? Or mindless zombies?

I guess one of the things I want to know is: is it just a matter of shoot them all up, problem solved? They're not materialised, so I guess they're not as hard to kill with conventional weapons as materialised spirits.

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 8960
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #5 on: (11:12:02/11-09-19) »
As far as I can gather: If you shoot them, they have to make it back through the Watergate Rift, which is a risky business, or wait for a Master Shedim to summon them.

We know from previous editions that a disrupted spirit will be unable to be called upon for up to a month. I'd assume the same for a Shedim, so Auslander will take at least 3 weeks off before being able to make it back through, and then he has to find a corpse asap to not lose Force.

If you want to kill a Shedim, I guess you'd have to trap him without a body somehow so it loses its Essence. That, or make your way to their realm and permanently kill them through a Spirit Formula?_? Risky business.

As far as runners are concerned, if you shoot them, they're out and not your problem anymore. You do want to take out the Master though.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Beta

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1689
  • SR1 player, SR5 GM@FtF & player@PbP
« Reply #6 on: (12:58:32/11-09-19) »
auslander shows up again later.  Once in Chicago Missions (and also in the Anarchy conversion Chicago Chaos).  Then there is a prime mission where you go to his meta-plane to finally stop him (Holy piece of network).  In one of those there is mention of an artifact that summons him, which is apparently why he kept coming back, even post rift closure.
« Last Edit: (15:55:39/11-09-19) by Beta »
Tipperman  --
speechthoughtmatrix

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 8960
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #7 on: (12:59:42/11-09-19) »
Ding-dong the witch is dead!!!
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

cantrip

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 395
« Reply #8 on: (11:38:02/11-10-19) »
I tend to run them fairly smart; they are trapped here after all --- look at it that the 'not smart' ones have been culled.  ;) And as stated above they are all desperate, well and hateful. Can't forget the hate of all living thing. ;D

If you can, check out:

[spoiler]
Toxic Alleys module; it has quite a bit of info as well. Touches on some additional types as well as a couple of artifacts.
[/spoiler]